The Long-Term Projections For Real Estate ? - Posted by Elise

More good points - Posted by randyOH

Posted by randyOH on January 06, 2003 at 19:29:06:

Ron,
You also make some good points. There is no doubt in my mind that our standard of living has been increasing. How much of that has to do with the loss of manufacturing, I do not know. I suspect it has to do mostly with technological progress.

You are probably right that the U.S. will continue to prosper despite the loss of manufacturing from the economy, at least for the near future. Certainly history, so far, is on your side.

However, history is a long time. In terms of the history of civilizations, the U.S. is a blink of the eye.

Many great civilizations have prospered for periods greatly exceeding our short history and have eventually fallen. I believe the Roman empire lasted almost 1,000 years. But it eventually collapsed. And I believe the reason for the fall of Rome was primarily economic.

So I continue to have doubts about the long-run effects of transferring almost all of our manufacturing activity to other countries. The consequences of running a $400 billion trade deficit may be positive in the short run but negative in the long run. But, as Keynes said, in the long run, we are all dead. So, yes, you and I will probably be long gone before the negative effects of the trade deficit are realized. But, our grandchildren may not enjoy as good a standard of living as we have.

So, bottom line for me is that I do not believe that the U.S. can sustain its current level of prosperity if the current economic trends persist. I do not believe that an economy can thrive on services alone. For a while, yes. For the long run, no.

Just the way I see it. I am not an economist, I am just guessing about this stuff. I may be totally off base. But, I think it is an interesting subject nontheless.
Randy

Hank, after reading your explanation … - Posted by Robert Campbell

Posted by Robert Campbell on January 06, 2003 at 10:53:36:

I’m kind of shocked that Professor William Goetzmann, who is the director of the International Center for Finance at Yale University’s School of Management, could so blindly have overlooked the points you make to support your argument and disprove his. (grin)

Thank you for taking the time to voice your opposing opinion.

Robert Campbell

Re: More good points - Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA)

Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA) on January 06, 2003 at 21:22:07:

Randy–(OH)--------------

Well, I think people are much influenced by their predipositions or personalities. This is especially so where the reality is difficult to perceive or project. Perhaps you have a tendency toward pessimism?

In 1855 should have projected to somebody that the USA in one hundred years would have many fewer farmers–that they would represent about 1/10 of the percent of the population in 1955 as in 1855–they would probably have been horrified and predicted doom for the USA. But that is about what happened. No mass starvation, no bankruptcy of the USA government. Because of mechinization and the effects of land grant colleges and the agricultural extension service, farmers became much more productive. Now, about 6% of the USA population is engaged in agriculture. And the other 54% enjoy the fruits of their labors.

And we did not have to be farmers. I say that with relief, having lived from age 12 to 20 on a farm and having labored in the fields.

I think if I were a real estate investor where you are I would think it was heaven. I’m sure there are a lot of investment opportunities there. And positive cash flow on houses, I’m guessing. Wow. I hope you are appreciating the opportunities open you and are going to be exploiting them to the maximum.

Good InvestingRon Starr

Re: Hank, after reading your explanation … - Posted by Hank

Posted by Hank on January 06, 2003 at 15:56:09:

Actually, I have no idea of how Proffessor G. compares real estate with other investments. That quote came from a much larger body of work I’m sure.

Appreciation and tax benefits are gravy and should not be counted on.

Deal making ability, amortization, and peoples mortgages as well as money should be.

I don’t think any one that comes to this board is interested in 4%-5%.

Ron, pay attention. - Posted by randyOH

Posted by randyOH on January 06, 2003 at 23:21:40:

Ron,
As I have told you (more than once, I think) I live in Orange County, CA. I invest in OH. Yes, I like positive cash flow. That is why I go 2,400 miles from home to do my investing, sort of like you.

I do not believe I am a pessimist. I am not predicting imminent doom and gloom. I am just saying that if we become totally dependent on services in our economy, future generations will experience a declining standard of living. Seems like a rather self-evident proposition.

Perhaps you can explain how an economy consisting almost entirely of services can prosper when it imports almost all of the products it consumes and exports nothing but stocks and bonds. It may be possible, but I just do not understand how it could work.

Isn’t it great that we can ponder such profound issues? Too bad nobody else cares what we think. But I certainly respect your opinions, even if I do sometimes disagree a little.
Randy