Re: is anyone making $$$$ - Posted by Reg

Posted by Reg on December 15, 1998 at 20:29:36:

Opps! My appologies. Amy was from the other board on this forum. I have read so much all the Names are running together.:slight_smile:

Re: is anyone making $$$$ - Posted by Reg

Posted by Reg on December 11, 1998 at 19:05:49:

John and J.P.,
Thank you both for your responses. Give me 2 weeks of study and I will be able to understand them. :-)As I said I am new to this whole arena and its concepts. J.P. I will admit that I have a lot to learn and one way is to order Johns video course. I guess I want to know is that if I invest the money and time to learn this business will It be reasonable to make 30k a year part time. My definition of reasonable part time is no more than 15-25hrs a week and a reasonable amount on business expenses to make that amount of money. I understand that it takes time and effort to develop any business I just can’t afford to spend my wheels.
gentlemen thank you again.

Re: is anyone making $$$$ - Posted by Bud Branstetter

Posted by Bud Branstetter on December 16, 1998 at 22:17:47:

Here is another comment from several of the successfull note brokers from the last Noteworthy convention. It took 4 to 5 years for most of these people to feel they were running a successful business. My evalauation of that is 100K net. There is no way to know what you can make part time the first year. There are just too many variables.

Re: making $$$$ - recognize the truth! - Posted by Terry Vaughan

Posted by Terry Vaughan on December 14, 1998 at 12:02:18:


You are looking thru the forest for the trees!

The wisdom John and others here have given you seems to be passing you by. Learning the moves and principals of “doing good business” with notes is an education in the more sophisticated arena of real estate.

You will understand the power and simplicity of using notes once you have done a few “regular” real estate deals. Then when you apply note concepts, the light bulb will go on.

Within the world on notes you will find solutions for many problems - cash flow, immediate money, equity trades, etc. etc. you can make as little or as much as you want. It all depends on your knowledge, attitude and courage when working with larger and larger numbers.

Learning about notes and paper will “warp” your mind forever. This is good! You will never look at any kind of financing the same way again!

This is the one education no one who is serious about making “real” money can do without. Whether someone else is making a 100K a year with paper, means nothing! Those of us using paper concepts know the ideas have been around for many many years, they work in any market and this knowledge gives us an edge on the rest of the players. The real question is, what can you do with these same concepts?

Re: is anyone making $$$$ - Posted by DanM(OR)

Posted by DanM(OR) on December 12, 1998 at 17:07:21:


I think John will tell you the same, but he spent about 15-25 a week at first. He also averaged about 1 deal a week with an average profit of $1300. Hmmmm! $1300/week X 52 Weeks a year = $67,600 / year. I guess that fits the bill.

Sign me up!


Re: Thanks! - Posted by Stacy (AZ)

Posted by Stacy (AZ) on December 15, 1998 at 15:24:05:

John & Terry, your words are inspirational. Thanks for having the patience to bring along the novices, fielding the same questions repeatedly, and answering truthfully. You make this site feel as if we’ve cheated the rest of the population by getting one-on-one guidance from you.

Terry, when you suggested that completing one note deal will open up our minds to the possibilities, your words rang so true. This is the same thing my first Real Estate deal did for me. It all became real, and so many of my limiting beliefs faded away. Great advice.


Re: making $$$$ - recognize the truth! - Posted by Reg

Posted by Reg on December 14, 1998 at 19:43:54:

OK Terry,
>>You are looking thru the forest for the trees!>The wisdom John and others here have given you seems to be passing you by.<<

No need to insult. I am simply seeking knowledge for something I know very little about. with your above statement seem to take offense at my questions. my intentions are not to threaten anyone but to learn. I believe in asking direct questions. It ferets out the BS for me. This is the Truth that I recognize it:
I want to be in business
I want to be profitable
I will do whatever it takes
I will not make an emotional decision
I will learn and learn fast
I will question untill I am satisfied
I just want to know what is possible and what I have to do to get there.
The rest of your post I agrree with except this one statement:
Whether someone else is making a 100K a year with paper, means nothing!

The only reason to go into business is to make a profit!
Terry thanks for your input.

Re: is anyone making $$$$ - Posted by Reg

Posted by Reg on December 12, 1998 at 17:58:46:

Thanks for the info. I understand that John is successful, from all that I have read. Those numbers sound great to me. However, I believe the market is now a little different and a lot more crowded than when John started. I believe in my original post I asked if there was anyone besides John that is making a any money and gave my criteria on what making money means to me on this post. So far There is no one who has said that they are outside of John. I do appreciate that everyone has had the integrity to not come on and just lie about making it when they have not. But, it has to make me stop and think whether or not it is possible for the little guy to do it part-time. so I should probably just start a seminar or make up a home study course. (just joking)

Take it one step farther - RISK FREE - Posted by John Behle

Posted by John Behle on December 15, 1998 at 22:09:47:

One of the best things I encourage my students to do is go through “flight school” (You’ll see the example in the tapes).

Ground school for a pilot involves a simulator. It would be foolish to just put them in a plane. First the simulator, then as a co-pilot, then solo.

Do the same. “Shadow” a note. Pretend to buy one. I don’t mean to lead someone on, just do the due-diligence and gather the documents. Research the note on your neighbor’s house. That’s always interesting. Sometimes you find out that neighbors don’t own the house, are in foreclosure or you might find it free and clear (YOUR NEXT FINANCING SOURCE?).

Risk free “Profficiency exercises” can take the fear out of failure and help to build the confidence that success brings. It can also help to jump start your greed glands. You might pass a couple notes up while you are watching and get quite motivated.

Re: making $$$$ - recognize the truth! - Posted by Terry Vaughan

Posted by Terry Vaughan on December 15, 1998 at 13:44:29:


I didn’t take offense. And neither should you. I’m just trying to redirect you to the realization that paper deals are not new. The concepts have been used by pros for many years.

If you want to see the high end possibilities, just read the paper, ie. “Donald trump pays off millions in bank debt with discounted Fannie Mae mortgages, Argentina pays off hundreds of millions of dollars to American Banks with Zero Coupon Bonds. Wall street Assists!”

Go to the success stories page and read, “How I made $100,000 for 1 Dollar”, by John Gault. This is an example of only one deal. There are many possibilities once you learn the basics.

Now, don’t get me wrong. This isn’t going to happen over night. You will have to sharpen your skills and knowledge before you can go out and make over 100k in one deal. But you have to start in order to gain the reality.

I’m saying to you, there is already more than enough proof that people can make thousands of dollars using paper tecniques. But, the only way you will prove it for yourself is to go do a paper deal. That one transaction will open up a whole new world to you.

To start learning what and how, there isn’t a better teacher anywhere than John Behle.

Did I mention the TEAM - Posted by John Behle

Posted by John Behle on December 15, 1998 at 13:35:59:

In addition to the other post. I’ve mentioned it and detailed it in a couple posts below.

You need a “Technical Team” to cover your weaknesses and highlight your strenghts. You also need a team that is referred to as a “Mastermind Group”. You can accomplish MORE IN 1 YEAR with a Mastermind Group than you can in TEN YEARS ON YOUR OWN. Just because you are in business for yourself, doesn’t mean you need to be in business by yourself.

The Majority asking similar questions - Posted by John Behle

Posted by John Behle on December 15, 1998 at 13:32:14:


From your posts, I can tell the sincerity and intent of your questions are different than most.

Terry, like myself has been around a long time and seen thousands of potential investors asking questions similar to yours.

It’s hard not to become a little conditioned to the majority and overlook the few exceptions. Most asking the type of questions you have been asking are stuck in something that doesn’t work for them.

Like I said, your intent seems different, but let’s look at the majority for a moment. Most ask the questions trying to justify their decision based on someone else’s results. Sadly, this is the same type of “reasoning” that leads many to buy the false promises some will gladly throw out to attract the wallets of potential students.

My experience is that that reasoning doesn’t work. You can justify almost any occupation by those who succeed and those who don’t. Take MLM (Multi Level Marketing). Only 2% have any substantial success, yet tens of thousands are drawn by that success. Can you make money in it? Absolutely. Most do not. One of the reasons is this “mindset” that attracts them to the success of the 2% and makes them think it is easy money.

The heart of the matter is that anyone that really knows anything about success can’t predict your future income in an occupation. It has EVERYTHING to do with the background, makeup and in particular “Intention” of the person asking.

Can you make a million in your first year? Yes. Can you make nothing? Yes. Can you be totally safe? Yes. Can you lose your shirt? Yes (though it’s hard to do). What does the average new person make? I have no clue. I’d guess the average is VERY low if you factor in the newbies from the seminar mills. If you factor in only students that get real, practical, realistic education and develop the needed resources, the income far exceeds what is available in most any other occupation.

From my experience, success in paper involves the following.

  1. Minimum of 5 full days of discounted mortgage education from someone who knows the business through both knowledge and experience. Actually, there are only a handfull that qualify that way (that teach). Ten days is preferable.

  2. A year of hand holding with a Mentor that knows paper, knows coaching, helps you plan, helps you develop local resources, does not treat you like a bird dog, knows and has extensive training in PERSONAL DEVELOPMENT - to help you through emotional blocks, self defeating behaviors, limiting beliefs and is willing to be totally honest with you - not just motivational. Sometimes direct honesty looks like gently confronting you on not keeping your goals. Also, a coach is worthless if they don’t know the true habits of successful goal setting, including how to set proper goals and the mindset behind achieving them.

  3. At leaset 100 hours in Personal Development Training. This needs to be in a group, experiential format by a training organization that knows what they are doing. The last couple years I’ve been real busy with family, business, etc., but in 1996 I either attended or facilitated 13 trainings personally.

  4. A plan. All the training should be geared towards the philosphy of “In with a Dream, out with a Plan”. You do need a business and marketing plan - when you are ready. That means after much of the education and developed by someone who knows the business.

I know you’re looking for a sampling of results from people, but as I mentioned, this board is only a couple months old and though it is more active than any other “paper” newsgroup in the industry, most don’t yet know about it. Yet, in less than 60 days, there is more meat here than anywhere else.

Less than 60 days old - Posted by John Behle

Posted by John Behle on December 12, 1998 at 19:56:11:


This forum’s only been here for less than 60 days. Most people don’t know it exists yet. Up until this point, the board has been predominately followed by real estate investors. I’m not sure there are too many that are full or even part time in paper yet. (though many are applying the principles to Mobile Homes quite successfully).

Most of the people frequenting this are in the learning stages.

As you can tell by the posts, both Bud and Eduardo have some excellent experience in paper as well as both J.P. and Terry Vaughn. There are some other paper sites, but none with as active a forum as this one. If you don’t get the responses you would like here, I can give you some names and numbers of people to talk to.

The TEAM you need - Posted by John Behle

Posted by John Behle on December 15, 1998 at 22:02:56:

The technical team is a group of resources you need. You don’t necessarily get together with them all or need everyone all the time.

Your technical team includes whatever people you need to help you in the areas of finding, funding or qualifying notes.

Finding - You might have people on your team such as Realtors, other note brokers, or mortgage brokers

Funding - This can include financial planners, CPA’s, consultants, insurance agents, Mortgage funding companies, financial institutions, and hard money lenders.

Qualifying - This is the “Due-diligence” part that is essential to protecting yourself, a funding source or an investor. Many times if you are just brokering a note, the funding source will be responsible for this. If you are buying for your own portfolio, using private investors or “Table funding” notes (buying to re-sell later), then you need this aspect of the team.

You also need the “due-diligence” squad to avoid wasting time or money.

It includes people to help with:

  1. Determining property values (Appraisers, Realtors, other investors, MLS comps, or the Internet)

  2. Determining the “Integrity of the title” (title company, title researchers, attornies, county recorder personell)

  3. Legal review/ Problem solving. This can be an attorney, title company or knowledgable agent or investor.

That’s just a sampling of some of the team members you might need or want to have. You can do all of this yourself - but even if you can, do you want to? Is it the best use of your time? Could someone pick up something you miss?

One good assistant may be able to do many functions. For example, one of my best resources at one time was a young college student that had worked for a credit union. He could do the market analysis (CMA’s) and provide comps to help establish value. He knew titles and could go pull an “abstract” for my review. He could do a drive by and take pictures of the property and neighborhood.

Tomorrow I’ll share some more about the “Mastermind Group”.

Re: Did I mention the TEAM - Posted by Reg

Posted by Reg on December 15, 1998 at 17:44:03:

I did not see the post on TEAM. how does one get involved with or form a TEAM?

Re: The Majority asking similar questions - Posted by Reg

Posted by Reg on December 15, 1998 at 17:39:57:

I can totally understand how you could be put off by my question. It was probably not the right question to ask, but with my limited knowledge of the paper business and the way I was introduced to the paper industry was the only question I could form. I am a six year veteran Of MLM and just finally got sick and tired of loosing money and the hype of making “quick easy money”. I was blessed to be with a really good company for many years that did not practice the hype and really told me what it was going to take to succeed. Unfortunately many people that I recruited believed the hype and did not stay around for long. No matter how much I preached that it takes work and becoming a professional (through ongoing education and practice) most would do very little for 30 days and then give up. After six years of spinning my wheels and realization of some underground workings of that industry I chose to no longer be involved.

I share that to say that my question came out of frustration born from an intire industry that preys on peoples dreams and of getting rich quick. It sickens me to think that people believe that they can start from scratch a business that they have very little knowlege of and make a million dollars a year working 5-10 hours per week.

I realize that any amount of success is dependant on me and what I can do. to make a six figure income in any industry is only done done by the top 1 or 2 percent. That is because they are willing to pay a price to be the best. so forgive me for letting my MLM roots surface.:slight_smile: I have worked hard in that industry to no avail. I just want make sure that it is possible that if I study hard and work just as hard that it really is possible for me to become financially independent. In MLM 99 percent of the people lose money. I lost thousands of dollars trusting people who said they had my best interest a heart. so now I am telling my wife that I am going to embark on someting else! I have to make sure that this is the real deal if you know what I mean?:slight_smile:

I mailed in my ordered for your five day video traing series today because of your statistics post to Amy. I really appreciate what you had to say in that post.

Re: Less than 60 days old - Posted by Reg

Posted by Reg on December 12, 1998 at 22:30:10:

I would love to talk to someone that has had success(I mean consistanly doing deals from sweat equity) in the last year. If that is at all possible phone numbers would be greatly appreciated.

“Beliefs” - Posted by John Behle

Posted by John Behle on December 15, 1998 at 21:40:55:

I copied this quote I posted from the other board. It goes along with what we have been discussing here. I wasn’t put off by your post at all. I totally agree with the 2000 year old advice of one of my heros “Prove all things, hold fast that which is good”.

I believe there is an error in being either too gullible or too skeptical. Gullible is what con artists live on, yet skeptical has the extreme of being un-teachable or even denying the facts. So I never in any way fault an inquiring mind.

Here’s the post

I notice so many posts on this board that are either extremely skeptical of everything or “believing” of everything.

Sometimes there gets to be battles over it. I found the following quote that we might consider.

“There are two ways to slide easily through life: to believe everything or to doubt everything. Both ways save us from thinking.” - Alfred Korzybski

The most common post is “Does the Carleton Sheets program work?” A quick reading of the newsgroup leads to dozens of posts on the exact subject. Those who haven’t succeeded at something sometimes argue with those who have over whether it is possible.

I’m not arguing for or against Carelton Sheets (I haven’t taken the course), just pointing something out. In twenty years of training people, including some of the Sheets coaches, I worry about the very basis of the questions.

No offense, but there is something that doesn’t work about the premise of looking for evidence as to why something will or won’t work. That mindset is the source of the problem.

No course teaches you everything, few will ever teach nothing. I believe my success has been directly proportional to my education. When I began 20 years ago, I took some courses as much as 7 times. I looked for new courses. I flew to where they were and read all they wrote.

You won’t go wrong spending a little for a course or a new idea. If you believe the pitches, that someone will teach you all you will ever need to know or make you successful, that is the root of the current “Scarcity” in your life.

If the price of the course leads you to believe it must be better or more comprehensive because it is more expensive - that is a flaw. The very part of you that is drawn to the “we can do it for you” pitch is the part that stands in your way of success.

Some of my best and most profitable ideas have come out of a lunch with someone. Sometimes a $10 book has radically shaped my entire philosphy or direction. Yet, I have spent tens of thousands on education. I don’t regret a dime - especially in the area of personal development. “Abundance and Prosperity” has 99% to do with your inner beliefs, not education or circumstances. Actually, I could prove to you that it is 100%, but we’d need to be in a classroom.

It is about internal drive, motivation and most importantly “Intention”. Education is fabulous and very helpful and necessary, but useless without the drive.

Life and money are simple. It’s “Economic Alchemy”. You allow money into your life and create it to the very degree of your belief.

For what it’s worth - Posted by Stacy (AZ)

Posted by Stacy (AZ) on December 15, 1998 at 17:59:42:

Most know me on the other CREO boards, just wanted to clarify on this board (if it matters). I’m Stacy (not Amy), and I’m the proud father of 2 girls. I still get junk mail addressed to “Ms.” No big whoop.

You’ll enjoy the boot camp videos.

Stacy (AZ)

Re: “Beliefs” - Posted by Reg

Posted by Reg on December 15, 1998 at 22:26:43:

John you said:
>>It is about internal drive, motivation and most importantly “Intention”. Education is fabulous and very helpful and necessary, but useless without the drive.>Life and money are simple. It’s “Economic Alchemy”. You allow money into your life and create it to the very degree of your belief<<

I believe those last 2 statements is what seperates the top 2% from the rest of the world. Nothing else of value can be added to your post.Thank You