question; something for nothing, not always t case - Posted by MJS(sjca)

Posted by MJS on October 22, 1998 at 11:20:10:

Thanks for your post
This a verry positive site
One for helping others!!

question; something for nothing, not always t case - Posted by MJS(sjca)

Posted by MJS(sjca) on October 19, 1998 at 17:35:58:

You know it is funny. I have talked to a few people about this and they wonder too.
Anyway Sometimes people need help or ask for help.
AND some people say "all you want is something for nothing
This is not a true statement in all cases.
There are people who will go out of their way to pay someone back (given a chance) for help received.
Sometimes so much so that they are told to stop, that payment was paid in full many more times than necessary.
Also some people say " you are giving away too much $ “
” get greedy and keep more of it"
The $ is not the point
The point is that THEY WANT to do it this way.

When someone does someone a favor no mater how small or insugnificant it should be returned 10 fold.
Respect is what is intended not a hand out.

True; people do take advantage of situations
But it is our choice to accept it or not.
To put someone down because they asked a question that we could not and say we struggled so you have to also is not something people should say.
We all try, some harder than others, some even luckier than others. Some never succede others excell their teachers
Please just remember we are all trying to succede, just going about it differently

John Behul gives out his heart on this site, and since he has joined, others have changed their toon as to give an example of a situation or a small answer along with where to look
Not " go to ----------- place and look" period
This is a great site
Gives the wrong impression to some newbees
(more advenced than what we are)
But does give motivation to those who know about deals
" Some people do return more than they receive
Others give more than or all that they have"
my .02c ttfn mjs

Re: question; something for nothing - RTFM! - Posted by Mr Donald (NORVA)

Posted by Mr Donald (NORVA) on October 19, 1998 at 18:13:57:

My firm belief is that you can only help those who want to be helped, and those who choose to help themselves first.

Read a couple of Ayn Rand’s novels such as The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged, and you’ll see what I’m getting at.

I’ve no problem giving useful information to someone who has demonstrated at least a modicum of effort to find it themselves - not seek the easy way out by asking when it’s obvious that they haven’t bothered to look it up for themselves. (RTFM!)

Re: question; Mr Donald not the point! - Posted by MJS(sjca)

Posted by MJS(sjca) on October 20, 1998 at 14:42:47:

This is not what I intended Because the first post did not post. Have to get used to this new setup.

True I can understand where you are comeing from butthat was not my point
I have been deading your posts and most of them are all negative towards the question
But yes there is hope I did read one post you gave positive input.
This place is for people to ask q’s not get told to crall back somewhere.
People need encouragement to do a lot of things.
Just because you had to scrape and grovel for some reason. Take it a little more easy on us.
If we knew the answers we would not ask the questions
Try and give some type of positive advice
There have been other posters like yourself but they seem to disappear after a few weeks

MY point is that here are people out here that can do a lot of good if given a chance.
"The quickest path is a streight line but one has to know where not to tread. and little things allow one to travel faster in different situations. Why because there may be no ground between point a & point b"
Please take it a little easier on us and try to point out where to go or- do as John b. has done and give a fev examples of what he has done in the past to wet an apetite. think positive.
We all learn from mistakes (some can be avoided if we know about them)
You take it for granted that these questioners have not read or purchased any materials.
person #1 the boss person #2 the go getter
person #3 housewife
#1 hired #2 to manage #2 had all the right answers to any question (sweet talker). #2 hired #3 and would get a bonus for her sales. #1 sold $4k/mo #2 sold $1k/mo but quit before he could realize #3’s potential. So #3 had more sales than anyone else that has worked for #1. So #1 made more $ off of the bonuses of #3’s sales than he made selling things himself.
Morral; We never know when we will find a pearl. If cultivated correctly It can be the biggest and the best.
Check out the other two posts.
If you had an oppertunity to show a stranger something that you knew. S/he would give you part of most of their deals or just give you good deals in the future for showing them something now. no guarantees of course.
What would you do??
I know 2 out of ten people will not follow through. (so we are taught to just forget about erevything because of what the majority does.)

Best of luck mjs

Re: question; something for nothing - RTFM! - Posted by karp

Posted by karp on October 19, 1998 at 19:28:39:

Mr. Donald,
I am Roark and John Galt of Generation X. I pay the price daily for the perceptions others have of me.
So, I understand exactly what you are getting at about
the very real virtue of selfishness.
However, I tend to cut people slack when they ask what seems to me to be a stupid question as I cannot always accurately judge what steps they may have taken up to the point where they ask for help.

I also tend to give credit to people who have the guts to post. Remember, they may be afraid that people will think exactly what you have said (RTFM!). And yet they post anyway. That’s Gutsy and I like Gutsy.

The other challenge here is our own perception of what is a stupid question or what someone should have figured out on their own (or even looked in a book for that matter). I am continually amazed at what I see as non-issues posted to the newsgroup. However, I often see that these comments generate a lot of thought and people really do need an answer.

Food for thought. By the way, you have my utmost profound respect for bringing up two of my very favorite books.


aka Karl Hartley

Re: question; something for nothing - RTFM! - Posted by Stacy (AZ)

Posted by Stacy (AZ) on October 20, 1998 at 15:38:47:

Ms. Rand was interesting, and captured a few generation’s imagination with her brand of philosophy. However, in my opinion altruism has value, even in REI.

By the way, I wish I would never see “RTFM” on this site again.


Re: question; something for nothing - RTFM! - Posted by Yianni

Posted by Yianni on October 19, 1998 at 22:13:22:

Karp, I don’t think Mr. McDonald was referring to “stupid questions”. Please re-read his post, because the way I understand it it goes like this.

The givers “time” has certain “value”, which he chooses to offer for free to people who have demonstrated a certain amount of “effort” to acquire it first.

History has shown that only then, we can retain the information. (It’s just like math. You first have to try to solve the problem yourself. If not, by merely looking at a solution book, you are more likely to be destined to fail during the exam which in our case might be (a closing deal meeting etc.). I think this ok, don’t you?

Re: question; something for nothing - RTFM! - Posted by karp

Posted by karp on October 21, 1998 at 09:59:28:

While I may disagree about the merits of altruism, I wholeheartedly recommend “RTFM” being added to JP’s no-no list of words.


aka Karl Hartley

RTFM! A Definition… - Posted by Mr Donald (NORVA)

Posted by Mr Donald (NORVA) on October 21, 1998 at 11:20:27:

“Read The Fine Material!”

I guess it’s too much to ask others to do a bit of their own due diligence before asking others for help.

Now if the thought police have anything else to add… :slight_smile:

Mr Donald.

Re: RTFM! A Definition… - Posted by Stacy (AZ)

Posted by Stacy (AZ) on October 21, 1998 at 15:06:46:

No offense, Mr. Donald, just an opinion. I agree with you that posters should read the articles on this site before posting questions. I can’t tell if you’re kidding or not about the definition of “RTFM”. If not, you may want to look it up at the following site. It just comes off as very negative, that’s all.


Re: RTFM! A Definition… - Posted by Mr Donald (NORVA)

Posted by Mr Donald (NORVA) on October 21, 1998 at 17:17:02:


Ah, the political correctness of it all! :slight_smile:

While you’re at it, I suggest you have the thought police on this board ban other acronyms such as “SNAFU”, and so forth - which, if you really knew the origin, you’d probably be offended too.

Anyway, all offence given was INTENDED as such, without remorse, regret or recourse (I hope…).

Yeah, everyone surfing in here ought to at least read some of the 500 or so articles of interest that the Vaughans have labouriously compiled for our edification.

But America being what it is today, I suppose I’m asking too much from the common man and woman among us.

If YOU or anyone else took offence - GOOD! It’s a wake-up call for those of you who want to take the easy way out - the lazy man’s way to riches.

To recall a pertinent saying: Give a man a fish and feed him for a day; Teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime.

I hope you all don’t starve. :slight_smile:

Mr Donald

Re: RTFM! A Definition… - Posted by Redline

Posted by Redline on October 21, 1998 at 15:47:39:

I think we’re all adults here. RTFM gets to the point rather quickly. Those who don’t know what it means would be hard pressed to get offended, right?

Re: RTFM! A Definition… - Posted by MJS

Posted by MJS on October 22, 1998 at 11:16:45:

Look at your own posted philosaphy
Teach a person to
Useing your statement
Think about this
As far as being offensive with words
What offends one will not offend another
There are a few no-no’s for this site but
The rest is PEOPLES own oppinion
If you read something you interpret it one way (usually differently than others)
If you were to help another you just might be surprised at the outcome (reading your comments probably not but there is a slim chance)
Your posts are welcome
But some of us will disagree.
Good luck in your life I hope it improves (happiness) it should always be welcome

Re: RTFM! A Definition… - Posted by Stacy (AZ)

Posted by Stacy (AZ) on October 21, 1998 at 16:44:24:

Yes, another valid opinion. I’m not offended by the word, it’s the attitude “RTFM!” conveys in this otherwise “positive attitude” newsgroup. But, hey, I’m obviously in the minority on this, so, onward and upward. I also feel I’m responsible for elevating a very minor issue well beyond its relative importance. Nuf said & case closed. Not a big deal.