Now playing.....My attorney and I. - Posted by Taylor

Posted by Taylor on July 06, 2001 at 24:47:53:

I totally agree with what you are saying. At one point during the meeting I felt that he was growing overly concerned about where I was going to find my sellers and where my buyers are coming from, how would I qualify them and on and on…I told him in a nice way that thats the business I’m in, if HE had to worry about those things then I wouldn’t be in business for myself but would have him doing all my leg work.

At that point I think he understood more clearly his role in my endeavours. You are right about the fact that some may choose not to represent you based on what they deem to be unethical. For example in the Garn-St. Germain Depository Institutions Act of 1982 where it deals with the transfer of real property into an inter-vivos trust…He was telling me that should I encourage a homeowner to transfer their property into a trust solely to facilitate the purchase of the property that I was “breaking the spirit with which the Act was written.”

He is not able to find anything illegal about that. However his thinking (and I believe its simply because he has no experience with this method of acquiring property) is steeped in convention regarding the fact that the D.O.S is being violated upon transfer of beneficial interest. I told him what Bronchick said…there is no due-on-sale jail. Even if the lender was to find out the clause says that they ‘may’ at their option call the loan due…its not automatic.

Like I said he ‘seems’ open enough to do his own reading and research on the subject. I know though that he was not comfortable with the fact regarding the DOS.

By the way, I’m using Bronchick’s materials. I know a lot of the pros on this board have had success with them so I’m confident that they’ll hold up under his scrutiny. Wishing you well in your investments.

Now playing…My attorney and I. - Posted by Taylor

Posted by Taylor on July 04, 2001 at 24:46:25:

Hi All,
I wanted to find out what you guys are doing or have done to educate your attorney regarding the use of a Land Trust.

I chose this attorney because I saw that he had twenty five years of experience working with a title company. I figured that he must have seen all types of closings in that amount of time and thus would have the experience and the exposure to R.E issues when closing a transaction.

Secondly, he has his own practice so I thought that in itself was a good thing…now he can relate to me as someone who knows what goes into running a business.

Thirdly, he provides trust services. Again I’m thinking that this will allow him to understand the use of a land trust.

We had spoken before regarding what I was looking for in an attorney and he seemed very open and knowledgeable. So I set up an appointment and today I sat accross for him and basically became an answering machine.

I was nervous but I kept reminding myself that HEY!! I was the one paying for this appointment so I better get as much out of it as possible. I totally enjoyed the meeting and I can’t thank the posters on this board enough…for every question I’ve read on this board regarding Land Trusts was asked of me. I found myself answering and explaining each one with words I’ve read from the veterans on this site.

I watched my attorney leaned forward attentively in his chair an listened intently as I explained a “subject to” purchase. He admitted that he had never heard or done such a deal. He kept putting both his on the sides of his face and then running them back through his hair (can you blow someone’s mind with this stuff??) The questions regarding the D.O.S was prevalent and the one part of our meeting that he was hung up on.

I’ve never had to answer so many questions before in my life!!! We discussed all the other aspects of my business and he offered very sound advice that I was mindful to note for later research.

I know this post is long, but finally, here is my question…to those who are doing 'subject to’purchases what was it that you said to your attorney that made him see ‘the light’ regarding the use of land trusts to hold title to real property??

My attorney will not be back in his office until monday. He wanted to review the trust docs. that I’ll be using and then get back to me. What was supposed to be a one hour appt. ran for a little over two hours! I really would like to build a working relationship with this guy. He was very helpful and seems like an honest attorney. (I don’t know if that is the same as saying dry water…lol)
Anyway I like him, very detailed fellow…just let me know what I can do to bring him on my side of the fence.

Thanks in advance to all who respond. Thanks to all the posters on this board…most often than not someone would ask my questions and I’ve benefited from the answers.
Happy and safe 4th.

Re: Now playing…My attorney and I. - Posted by SueC

Posted by SueC on July 05, 2001 at 14:03:00:

Excellent! You got the right resopnses from him. Now he only needs to understand one thing: That YOU make the decisions, he can only advise you. Ultimately, he can help you write up the trust docs, and he can tell you what he thinks about the use of the trust to avoid the DOS, but then he has to step out of the way - that is, he shouldn’t get hung up himself on insisting you do business HIS way. He is your advisor. Keep that in mind. You pay for his advice whether you take it or not is up to you! And guess what, you don’t have to!

You might run into some lawyers that wil refuse to represent you for some things they think are unethical. But then that’s his choice. As long as he documents that he told you the down sides, and then lets you go on your way, he’s covered from a malpractice perspective. That is, just in case something goes awry, which of course it won’t :wink:

Re: Now playing…My attorney and I. - Posted by B.L.Renfrow

Posted by B.L.Renfrow on July 04, 2001 at 10:58:11:

First, I don’t think your experiences with the attorney are all that unique. I think it’s safe to say that VERY few attorneys, anywhere, have the knowledge of land trusts as they are used by people on this board.

That this attorney didn’t immediately blow you off with, “Oh, you can’t do that…” is certainly in his favor. I’d be perhaps a little nervous about the fact he’s been practicing for 25 years, just because the longer one does things a certain way, the more narrow your field of vision becomes, and the less likely you are to consider alternatives. This is just human nature. Maybe this guy is an exception. In general, I think the younger attorneys are more open to new ideas…but this is a generalization, and of course, doesn’t apply in every situation.

When I first discussed this trust stuff with the attorney I ended up using, I also came prepared to answer the questions I knew he’d raise. In fact, I ended up loaning him Bronchick’s land trust course. I don’t know whether he really read it or not, but he did take it home with him. If anything helped him “see the light” it was probably the course.

I think this process is something you’re obligated to go through, and it’s not all bad, especially as it helps you to understand the concept more clearly and do your own research, so that you can explain it to the attorney. Unless you’re in a large area, or there are a lot of other investors doing land trust deals, it’s very likely the first your attorney is going to hear of it.

In my area, nobody – and I mean nobody – had EVER tried to do anything with a land trust, as least as far as I could tell. So I had no choice but to educate whatever attorney I ended up using. I picked one who did a lot of living trusts for clients, thinking he’d at least have some familiarity with the trust concept. It did give him a starting point, but he admitted himself that it was certainly not something that was addressed in law school.

My attorney also was hung up on the DOS clause, for a while. I finally got it across to him that violating the DOS was NOT a crime, which he seemed to accept. But he still asks questions from time to time which make me think he STILL doesn’t understand the total picture.

But let’s face it: it’s YOUR business, so it behooves you to know MORE about the structure you’re using than anyone else…including your attorney. It’s his job to keep you out of trouble, and on those occasions when trouble does arise in spite of your efforts, to GET you out of it, and make sure you’re within the boundaries established by law.

It sounds as if you may have the start of a good relationship. You’ll have a better idea when he responds to you. But either way, I’m sure that just talking through the whole process with him has given you better insight into the use of the land trust.

Brian (NY)

Re: Now playing…My attorney and I. - Posted by DavidV

Posted by DavidV on July 04, 2001 at 09:17:10:

When i had an attorney ask me about the DOS, i told her that if the bank called the loan i would just refinance it and pay them off. Seemed to satisfy her.

Re: Now playing…My attorney and I. - Posted by Travis (Dallas)

Posted by Travis (Dallas) on July 04, 2001 at 06:25:41:

I’d contact a Chicago Title office in your area. They are based out of Illinois where Land Trusts are commonly used & usually have an attorney familiar with Land Trusts. (1-800-621-1919 ext.2000 Chicago office)
Good Luck,