John T. Reed: Is this guy for real? - Posted by andy

Posted by Ronald * Starr on June 29, 2001 at 20:04:59:

David Alexander---------

Thank you for your posts. I have enjoyed reading them. It just proves to me that there are alternative ways to look at things. Thus, I will try not to harden my position or views on this topic.

Good Investing and Good PostingRon Starrr***

John T. Reed: Is this guy for real? - Posted by andy

Posted by andy on June 27, 2001 at 12:00:34:

Hello all,

I once heard about a person who has a site comparing and evaluating real estate gurus. The site is johntreed.com. After checking out this site, I was astonished to see the countless negative comments mentioned about the very gurus presented on this site all the time. People like LeGrand, Bronchick, Gatten, Sheets, Kaiser, Shemin, even the editor of this site, J.P. Vaughn…all of them. This site rates many real estate heavyweights.

Has anyone ever checked out this site? It certainly makes beginners think twice before buying any real estate course. I understand that everyone has the right to exprss their own opinion, but this site really depicts many gurus in such a negative aspect. If anyone has visited johntreed.com I would love to hear other thoughts about it. Thank you.

Re: John T. Reed: Is this guy for real? - Posted by Bronchick

Posted by Bronchick on June 28, 2001 at 17:39:21:

Here’s my beef . . .

#1) The personal attacks on the individuals are childish and unecessary. We are not talking about parenting skills, being president or a role model; the issue is solely whether the gurus in question provide good ideas that MAKE YOU MONEY. Would you turn down a personal mentoring from Donald Trump, despite his personality?

#2) He’s hypocritcal. According to Reed, everyone who does lease/options and takes over loans subject-to are somehow “unethical.” Yet, syndicated columnist Robert Bruss advocates the same ideas and he wouldn’t dare attack Bruss’ credibility (Bruss could do more harm to him).

I believe he is like a tabloid. The more inflamatory things he writes, the more people pay attention. It’s sort of like my 3 year old daughter; if she can’t get positive attention, she’ll cry and get attention that way.

If you search any Guru’s name through Yahoo!, Reed’s review page comes up. He even mentions the somewhat irrelevant fact that Carleton Sheets is ‘aka" Carlton Sheets. Is this relevant, or is Reed trying to catch hits on his site if you spell Sheets’ name wrong?

Hmmmm . . .

I once asked Reed whether he was worred about getting sued for what he writes. He responded that it would bring him more publicity.

He’s like a pimple. If you squeeze it get’s irritated and stays around longer. So let’s igore him, and maybe he’ll go away.

:slight_smile:

Re: John T. Reed: Is this guy for real-Why Not? - Posted by willie

Posted by willie on June 28, 2001 at 09:03:10:

Why is it that people who don’t like Reed, or for that matter those who do, get so wrapped up in proving him or disapproving him? Why don’t we just take him for what he is,another source of information? You don’t have to agree with him or disagree with him. Some say, well he discourages newbies! If a newbie is going to be discouraged by Reed’s site, maybe he shouldn’t be in the business. Newbies and others in this business need to be realistic and get as much information as they can from all sources and then use their own analysis to make up their own minds. Just because he recommends one Guru or another or does not recomend one, doesn’t mean that some of what he says should be listened to and some discarded. One thing is for sure, he is certainly controversial and I know of no other site or source of information where like he, is certainly willing to stand up and be counted on almost all Gurus and organizations in the business whether you agree with him or not! He certainly seem to have high morale standards, maybe false in some cases, but never the less, he makes you think! That alone, gets my vote!

Re: John T. Reed: Is this guy for real? - Posted by Rob FL

Posted by Rob FL on June 28, 2001 at 07:28:57:

I think John Reed does reveal many of the pitfalls and negative aspects about this business. He does open your eyes to some of the tactics many “gurus” have used to take advanatage of people.

On the other hand though, remember that Reed himself admits he is basically a journalist and not an investor. After all he has only owned about a dozen properties in 30 years of investing and hasn’t owned any investment property in nearly a decade.

If you want to learn the things to avoid and how to lose money in REI, read through John Reed’s website. After that when you want to learn the things to do and how to make money in REI, read Creonline.

Re: John T. Reed: Is this guy for real? - Posted by Curtis-FL

Posted by Curtis-FL on June 27, 2001 at 23:46:24:

I think that he brings up some interesting points about the Due-on-Sale clause in most mortgages. Not only does he say why there legal ramifications with L/Oing a property, but he backs up every possible argument. If anyone that has many L/O deals under their belt disagrees with what he is saying in this link, please speak up, I would like to hear your thoughts.

Re: John T. Reed: Is this guy for real? - Posted by Ronald * Starr

Posted by Ronald * Starr on June 27, 2001 at 19:31:55:

Andy---------

I agree with GL.

Jack Reed has high moral standards. Whether you adopt his standards or not, I recommend that you read them and consider them. Especially if you are thinking about doing lease-options or subject-tos. And ask yourself how many of the other gurus discuss ethics for your consideration? Or do you plan to ignore them?

He also has an analytical and penetrating mind. I recommend all of his books. You can learn a lot from him.

He points out that about one third of his GURU recommendations are negative, about one-third are positive, and the other one-third are neutral.

Good InvestingRon Starr**********

Stay at this site (nt) - Posted by Paul_MA

Posted by Paul_MA on June 27, 2001 at 17:18:30:

nt

Re: John T. Reed: Is this guy for real? - Posted by John

Posted by John on June 27, 2001 at 16:17:02:

Just read everyone’s comments and decided to put in my opinion. I have read the info on johntreed.com in reference to the “Gurus” and for the most part, of the “Gurus” I know or have been associated with, the info and analysis is true. I have read a lot of the books, attended the seminars, bought some courses and because of circumstances with SOME of these “Gurus” I believe John’s analysis of them is correct. Fortunatly my initial RE training did NOT come from the “Not Recommended” nor anyone else on his list of “Gurus” and we have been extremely sucessful with our investing.

I further want to state I have never met John T. Reed, nor am associated with him or his company, so those of you saying he put me up to this…forget it.

The reason for my imput is that all this “Bashing” back and forth is taking up time from the real reason why we are on this site…that is REI.

John

Re: John T. Reed: I like him. - Posted by GL

Posted by GL on June 27, 2001 at 14:46:53:

He has the guts to tell the truth about some of the sleazeballs who infest this business. Who else is there to tell the truth about the Wade Cooks and McCorkles who prey on the innocent? I mean BEFORE they get sent up the river?

I must admit he is awfully strict and some of his criticism goes too far, on the other hand if he was lying you would expect someone to sue him.

He reminds me of a Harvard educated Philadelphia lawyer who is looking for the catch in everything and can see a flaw in a 100 carat diamond without being able to see the diamond.

Anyone who can be discouraged out of investing in real estate by reading his stuff shouldn’t be in this business. There are too many innocents getting sucked in by Carleton Sheets et al as it is and it’s high time they knew it’s not all a bed of roses.

Anyone who reads this site regularly has seen some heart rending stories along with the success stories. I feel any newbie will be better equipped if he or she is aware of the bad along with the good.

Re: “I do not recommend” ha ha (nt) - Posted by SueC

Posted by SueC on June 27, 2001 at 13:47:20:

nt

I read John’s site over a year ago… - Posted by Scot - SoCal

Posted by Scot - SoCal on June 27, 2001 at 12:47:00:

Put my new CS course (and dreams) under my bed and forgot about this site for the next year. Went to cleaning up some computer files and saw this site bookmarked and checked back. Spent the rest of the day reading this site. Dug out the CS course. Bought LeGrand’s book on Half.com and read thru each ‘How to’ article here.

Still looking for a first deal, that I know will come.

One day I hope to be mentioned on John’s site right along with those other heavy hitters. Then I’ll know I’ve ‘made it’!

Remember, you are what you eat (read).

Scot

Re: John T. Reed: Is this guy for real? - Posted by Irving

Posted by Irving on June 27, 2001 at 12:24:08:

Yes, he is for real.
If you follow John Reed, you must ignore all these Pros and their postings, courses, etc, that you find here. Would you consider jumping into RE investing that way? The Pros here have been more successful than John so why should we trade all of them for just one of him?

Re: John T. Reed: Is this guy for real? - Posted by Valerie

Posted by Valerie on June 27, 2001 at 12:14:36:

I am purposely avoiding his web site since I saw some previous comments about him on this board. I want to stay positive in my REI career and I look to these professionals to aid me in my quest for knowledge. To see them bashed would not be a way to spend my time positively.

Just my 2 cents.

Valerie

Re: John T. Reed: Is this guy for real-Why Not? - Posted by andy

Posted by andy on June 28, 2001 at 09:13:36:

I always like to look at both sides of the coin in any situation. Whether people agree with one side or the other is up to their discretion. You are certainly right about newbies having to be realistic and learning to obtain information from all sources.

I knew that when I posted this subject, it would spark much debate. I hope everyone who reads each post will check out John’s site before making any final judgements about him.

Ron… - Posted by David Alexander

Posted by David Alexander on June 28, 2001 at 21:14:33:

Quick question…

What do you have against L/O’s or buying subject to… ?

Although I dont buy with a L/O (not enough control in my opinion) I do buy subject to.

David Alexander

Re: John T. Reed: Is this guy for real? - Posted by JPiper

Posted by JPiper on June 28, 2001 at 01:11:43:

I’ve grown tired of writing posts regarding John T. Reed. I’ve written a bunch of them…none of them favorable to Reed.

I checked my files though and noticed that I had saved one that I wrote to a friend of yours…John Beck. I thought that you might be interested since it basically refutes the “statistics” that you used.

What I find interesting here Ron is that you took Reed’s statistics at face value…as did Beck. You are both wrong. One then wonders how much else of Reeds information you simply accept at face value. I don’t know the answer…but you do, and it’s an important one.

I wrote the post below a number of months ago, so the numbers have undoutedly changed. But my guess is they haven’t changed that much. Feel free though to check it out…just count them all as I did at that time.

By the way, I wouldn’t want anything I say here to come across as a personal attack. I enjoy your posts. And about 10 years ago or so believe I read a book about trustee sales in California by Beck and you (I think). Great book in any case.

I believe you’re a guy who is interested in facts, and therefore I though you’d be interested in these. I’ve often wondered how a review on John Reed written by John Reed would sound. I suppose you know that according to Joe Kaiser in a review he wrote at one time on John Reed, that Reed had lost several properties in Texas in deeds in lieu of foreclosure. That bit of information in the hands of a Jack Reed imitator could be absolutely devastating. Anyway, here’s the post:

Hi John:

Just thought I?d correct a factual error. It appears that Mr. Reed has misinformed you.

I checked out Reed?s guru page?.and counted the favorable, unfavorable, and neutral responses. According to my count, he has 101 ?reviews? on his site (as of today). The way these reviews break down is as follows: 56 Do Not Recommend, 26 Neutral, and 19 Recommend. This is hardly the ?one-third split? that Mr. Reed alludes to.

You might be interested though in delving into these numbers somewhat more in depth. The so-called ?neutral? reviews of Reed?s for the most part are not reviews at all. Most of these neutral ratings stem from not having information from which to review. In case you doubt this take a look. So it basically appears that when Reed does in fact review, he rates the ?guru? as either ?recommend? or ?do not recommend? with very few exceptions.

When looked at in this light, if we add up the actual reviews (approximately the total of the recommend and do not recommend) what we get is a total of 75 actual reviews. Of those 56 or 75% are negative. If we added in the very few neutrals that were actually reviewed, it wouldn?t skew these percentages much at all. Further, a few of the ?recommended gurus? are actually not gurus at all, but rather courses such as the CCIM course?.thus shifting the percentages even more sharply toward the disapproval side. Or taken another way, Reed approves of approximately 19% of the total gurus that he mentions on his site.

Whether this lopsided percentage of ?do not recommend? ratings is a reflection of the ?truth?, or whether it is a reflection of Reed?s method of criticism I?ll leave for you to decide. Either way though, it?s clear that Reed?s reviews are NOT evenly balanced in their results.

I would suggest however that in at least one of the cases where Mr. Reed has issued his ?do not recommend? rating, it appears to me that he has NOT actually reviewed the material. Rather, the review reads as an outright hatchet job. To read this particular review read the review of Scott Britton. Here is his review:

?According to a promotional mailing I received, he sells a video in which you learn how to “make $10,000 in 98 days.” $10,000 divided by 98 = $102.04 per day or $102.04 divided by eight hours = $12.76 per hour. According to my local want ads, you can make that much in jobs like the following: driver, chauffeur, customer service, child care site supervisor, carpet cleaner. Britton’s way of making the $12.76 a hour is rehabbing buildings that you must buy, rehab, then sell to get your money. There is far less risk and effort in a customer-service job.?

Whether you and I or Reed agree that a $10K profit on a rehab is sufficient, one thing that at least you and I could probably agree on is that Britton is not advising people to to pick up a hammer and start pounding away for 784 hours. My guess is that Reed knows this as well, or should, if he actually reviewed the video. Rather, it appears that Reed?s analysis is based strictly on a promotional mailing.

The questions I have for you are these: Which of Reed?s reviews are actually based on a thorough review of the authors materials? Which of his reviews are actually balanced and fair? Which of Reed?s reviews are of the type reprinted above? How would a person interested in receiving accurate reviews know the difference?

By the way, I happen to agree with Reed?s review of you?.but my agreement is based on having actually read some material of yours.

JPiper

Re: John T. Reed: Is this guy for real? Ron? - Posted by Mike

Posted by Mike on June 27, 2001 at 23:12:16:

Hi Ron,

From what I understand John Reed does not even do any real estate deals. Is this true?

Thanks,

Mike

Re: “I do not recommend” ha ha (nt) - Posted by andy

Posted by andy on June 27, 2001 at 13:49:22:

Funny!!!

Re: I read John’s site over a year ago… - Posted by andy

Posted by andy on June 27, 2001 at 13:31:04:

So you didn’t start because of John’s site? Wow. He had that much of an impact huh. I hope to see you on his site too, GOOD LUCK!!!