Is there a call generating software - Posted by vladimir (IL)

Real Estate Investing
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Posted by Jim Locker on July 11, 2001 at 15:27:30:

>>>>>Basically, it comes down to this… can a letter be sent to someone that basically says… unless some action is taken on your part to state that you disagree with the terms, you are then bound by them?

To do that “out of the blue” you have to be a government, and you have to pass a law first.

But to answer your question in the general case, “it depends.”

For instance, I cannot send you a letter telling you that you have joined my club and I am charging you a membership fee UNLESS you previously asked to join my club.

OTOH, let us say that I sell you a house and hold the note (disclaimer: in some states this is a bad example since there are a lot of laws governing these thing. However, I go with the RE example to make this an on topic post…) Now, the note I hold might say that I can jack the interest at any time to any level I want to, on 30 days notice, and if you don’t like it you have the option to buy me out.

So, six months into the deal, I send you a letter saying that I am raising the interest by 50%. You are stuck. But only because you already have a contract with me, where you agreed to the terms.

This is a common trick with credit card companies. They jack the interest at the drop of a hat and often with NO notice. But if you read all the fine print in the terms and conditions, you agreed to it.

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Is there a call generating software - Posted by vladimir (IL)

Posted by vladimir (IL) on July 09, 2001 at 08:56:37:

that will call a given range of phone numbers and play a message, stating that “I buy houses”, etc?

If so, is anyone here successfully using such program?
Thanks,
Vladimir

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Re: Is there a call generating software - Posted by Jim IL

Posted by Jim IL on July 09, 2001 at 19:03:39:

Valdimir,
First, don’t believe Jim Locker, this just sounds too fushy for me.
I’d want to see some verification for his claims of winning in court and getting paid for the third call.
And, since he claims to have a “Side business” doing this, was that something he had to prove in court?
I’d think so.

Now, on to what you were asking.
There are programs out there that will do this for you, but DO NOT DO IT!
These calls are now illegal in Illinois as I recall.
You may want to take a look in the online state statutes to find something about this.
I remember getting some of those a few years ago, and they annoyed the heck outa me.
I also recall reading an article somewhere that outlined the laws in Illinois about these automated telemarketing calls.

If you choose to telemarket, just call them with a live person.
Although I personally would not use telemarketing for REI, I think there are better ways.

Take care,
Jim FL

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Re: Is there a call generating software - Posted by Jim Locker

Posted by Jim Locker on July 09, 2001 at 11:10:32:

An area business used to pester people this way, with automated calling.

The first time they called me, I got the information from the machine, then sent them a certified letter stating that I ran a sideline business where I listened to telephone solicitations for a consulting fee of $500. Should they call me again, they would be hiring my services and would be billed the $500, with a 50% additional charge should it be necessary to go to court to collect.

The second time they called me, I sent them a bill, then I sued them to collect. I won.

The third time they called me, I sent them a bill. This time they paid it. They never called me again.

In case you should start doing your automated telephone harassment in my area, please be advised that I have a sideline business. I will listen to your telephone solicitation for a consulting fee of $500. If your machine should call me, you will have hired me and invoked the $500 consulting fee. Should I have to take legal action to collect from you, there will be a 50% surcharge, making the total $750.

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Re: Is there a call generating software - Posted by eric-fl

Posted by eric-fl on July 09, 2001 at 09:24:59:

there are lot’s of programs, and even devices, that will do this for you, but this amounts to “automated telemarketing”. A lot of states have some pretty strict laws against this type of telemarketing, presumably because it is too easy to saturate people with calls using the technology. I’m not an expert in that, but I would recommend you research the laws regarding this before implementing such a program. There have even been threads on this board in the past where people have sued those using such devices, and won, because there are laws that provide for damages against those using such devices.

Given all that, if you still wanted to do it, a lot of software programs that do this are called “demon dialers”, a search on the Internet using that term would probably yield some interesting results.

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Re: Is there a call generating software - Posted by Jim Locker

Posted by Jim Locker on July 11, 2001 at 15:50:57:

I must have done something right, though. I almost never get telephone solicitations any more.

I have a new angle. On those occasions when I get such a call, it goes like this.

“May I have your name, please?”

“My name is (whatever, let’s say Bill).”

“OK Bill. May I have your full name please.”

“I’m sorry, we’re not authorized to give you that.”

“Well, Bill, I need your full name. May I have your social security number and a credit card number, please”

(silence, then…)

“I can’t give you that.”

“Bill, you called me. You are taking my time. I need your credit card number and social security number so that I know who to charge.”

“I can’t give you that.”

“Bill, I need this information so that I can charge you. Now, may I have the numbers please?”

So far I have done this exactly twice, over the last few months. The first time, the person hung up. The second time, the person politely said “I can’t give you that. I won’t call you again.”

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Re: Is there a call generating software - Posted by Jim Locker

Posted by Jim Locker on July 11, 2001 at 15:39:04:

It was in the early 80s when I did this. I had a lot more energy for that sort of thing then, and it was prior to the telephone consumer protection act.

I did it to a local gym - they are the ones who wouldn’t stop calling by machine, and to a local newspaper - they did stop calling.

It was a long time ago, and several moves ago. I cannot produce any documentation at this point. sigh

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More info please - Posted by Scott (AZ)

Posted by Scott (AZ) on July 09, 2001 at 12:21:48:

Haha, very funny.

I’m curious… did it go to court, or did they settle out of court? If you did go to court, how hard was it to win? I mean, just because you sent them a certified letter stating that you charged a $500 consulting fee to listen to their message, that doesn’t necessarily mean that they agreed to it, even they called you again, right? Why, then, couldn’t you do the same for junk mail from the Post Office, or live (instead of the automated calls) telephone sales calls?

For example, if you owe $1000 on a credit card and you send the credit card company a letter saying you’re including a payment of $50 and if they cash it, then they’re agreeing to call it even and 0 out the balance… that isn’t legal and won’t work.

Scott

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Do you also have a consulting fee for e-mail - Posted by vladimir(IL)

Posted by vladimir(IL) on July 09, 2001 at 11:21:25:

solicitations? What about junk mail soliciations?

Also, Jim, please keep in mind that I was NOT using such service, I was merely asking about it.

Vladimir(IL)

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Re: Is there a call generating software - Posted by vladimir

Posted by vladimir on July 09, 2001 at 09:35:03:

Thanks for your response, Eric. I know that Joe Kaiser uses a computer software, that plays his recorded message. I am not sure if the program dials the numbers though.

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Re: More info please - Posted by Jim Locker

Posted by Jim Locker on July 11, 2001 at 24:50:13:

The first time we went to court. The second time they paid it.

>>>> I mean, just because you sent them a certified letter stating that you charged a $500 consulting fee to listen to their message, that doesn’t necessarily mean that they agreed to it, even they called you again, right?

That is EXACTLY what it means. And, after being notified, when they call me again, it becomes collectible.

>>>>>Why, then, couldn’t you do the same for junk mail from the Post Office, or live (instead of the automated calls) telephone sales calls?

I did do it with live calls. Of course, after the federal government passed the telephone consumer protection act, I no longer needed to do it. All I needed to do was quote the act. That act allows a consumer to sue for $500 in court if a telemarketer won’t stop calling.

Junk mail is a different thing entirely. ACtually, you can get yourself placed on a list so that the junk mail stops coming. After all, why would a junk mailer send you stuff if you throw it away without looking and he knows you are going to do that? Those mailings cost money.

>>>>>For example, if you owe $1000 on a credit card and you send the credit card company a letter saying you’re including a payment of $50 and if they cash it, then they’re agreeing to call it even and 0 out the balance… that isn’t legal and won’t work.

And your logic is?

Obviously this is not a comparable situation at all. If you spend the money with the credit card, you have incurred the obligation to repay (it’s called a contract). How is that similar to a telephone pest harassing you on the phone?

ACtually, it is similar in this fashion. If the credit card company sends you the card, and you throw it away without using it, you have incurred no obligation. But if you use it, you agree to the terms (de facto) and incur the obligation.

If I send you a letter saying that calling me to sell to me will cost you $500, and you don’t call me, then you have incurred no obligation. But if you DO call me, then you have de facto accepted the terms.

It’s simple enough, really.

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Re: Do you also have a consulting fee for e-mail - Posted by Jim Locker

Posted by Jim Locker on July 09, 2001 at 11:33:27:

looking at or not looking at email doesn’t make me stop what I am doing and go get it; I am going to check email anyway. Ditto going to the mailbox.

But when the phone rings, I have to stop what I am doing in order to service it. The junk calls block legitimate business calls, or calls from family and friends (depending on the line it comes on).

The junk call on the private line gets me up from the dinner table. Or gets me out of the bathroom with shaving soap on my face. Or wakes me up.

And if there is anything more annoying than a junk call, it is a junk call by a machine. Those things are illegal in a lot of areas, and should be illegal everywhere.

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Re: Is there a call generating software - Posted by eric-fl

Posted by eric-fl on July 09, 2001 at 10:16:34:

…and that would be the distinction, at least as I understand it. I don’t think there’s any problem with playing a recorded message, IF you get a machine, like Joe Kaiser does it. I think the problems start when you start doing it en masse, via automation, regardless of whether a human answers the phone or not. But as I said, I’m not an expert. Let us know if you find anything worthwhile!

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Re: More info please - Posted by Scott (AZ)

Posted by Scott (AZ) on July 11, 2001 at 14:36:23:

Sorry. Typo in my previous message. I meant to say:

“I’m NOT necessarily…”

Basically, it comes down to this… can a letter be sent to someone that basically says… unless some action is taken on your part to state that you disagree with the terms, you are then bound by them?

Scott