Investing after Bankruptcy? - Posted by IL Investor Guy

Posted by christine mendenhall on October 29, 2006 at 23:37:51:

Sean

Thanks for your comments. I wanted to clarify that even after BK you can buy property with out the 20%. In fact in my 8 years of doing this I have never put down 20%. Usually I do a “take out loan” which allows me the money to purchase along with the fix costs and then refi out when/if needed. I was also fortunate enough to have been in REI for several years before my BK situation and had established a good enough reputation that people were willing to continue to take risks with me.

C

Investing after Bankruptcy? - Posted by IL Investor Guy

Posted by IL Investor Guy on October 26, 2006 at 16:47:44:

Hey there,

Due to a series of poor decisions and even more poor money management, it appears as though bankruptcy is certain in my near future. In all likelyhood, of the Chapter 13 variety.

My question is credit & investing based, what is the best way to immediately go about reestablishing credit after the discharge process is complete? What can I come to expect about timeframes before I’m able to deal in real estate loans again, and what recommendations and advice would other investors who’ve been through the bankruptcy process have for one in my position who’s going to be going through it soon?

Thanks in advance,

IL Guy

Re: Investing after Bankruptcy? - Posted by Sgt.Sausage

Posted by Sgt.Sausage on October 27, 2006 at 17:04:32:

I hate to pee in your Wheaties™ … but I’m gonna anyway.

If you expect to have money in the near future to invest, then you should invest it in paying back the folks you stiffed via the bankruptcy courts. WTF is it with people who want to make promises to pay back money, renege on those promises, and want to start investing? What right (morally, not legally – what you want to do is legal, but that don’t make it right) – What right do you have to invest money that could be going to pay for those discharged obligations?

What happened to personal responsibility? You don’t feel like you owe those folks a dime do you?

Re: Investing after Bankruptcy? - Posted by christine.mendenhall

Posted by christine.mendenhall on October 26, 2006 at 21:29:45:

In 2001, I found myself in a similar situation, I invested in another company, which was not real estate related, and lost just under 600K. So, not only did I take out mortgages for all my income producing properties, that were paying my bills at the time. Now, I had no way of getting it back, because the rents were now going to pay those mortgages rather than paying me.

Luckily for me, and I?m sure obvious to you, I had been investing in real estate (since 1999, when I did my first real estate seminar with CRE in, I say Dallas, my sister, who came with me, says Atlanta) Nonetheless, There I learned how to manage a homeowner who was in trouble, possibly losing their home and/ or facing BK and making that situation into a profitable transaction for all parties.

I knew the laws for foreclosure in Illinois, I knew it would take at least 11 months for them to take my house and I knew that all I needed to do was concentrate on creating the money to make my house payment, and the general expenses of living?I also knew that not only did I have the 11 months I would have the option, if I need it, to create another 3 month ?stay? by filing a chapter 13. That?s easy, we?re investors. Now, I am going to buffer that with, I would not and did not do anything illegal, just as any good business person does, I educated myself about the laws that pertained to my situation at the present time and while walking inside of those lines, saved my own ass, instead of someone else?s.

The only solution for me, was treat myself as a client, and that’s just what I did.

I called around to all the investors in the paper, found the ones who would clean up my arrearages with the bank (on my personal residence only) And then, lease option or owner finance my property back to me. This allowed me the great advantage of being able to switch my chapter 13 to a 7. (Chapter 7 goes on for about 2yrs 3months here in Illinois before it’s discharged, chapter 13 goes on for 5 years active while you pay back you creditors and then another 2 years after you’ve been discharged before you can even begin rebuilding your credit. I?m going to throw in another small disclaimer here, I did this in 2001, BK laws have changed. I have worked with the new BK laws when managing my current clients. And, I have not had the “personal” experience of them. I am speaking from my personal experience before the changes. Which may or may not, effect this situation one way or the other.

Anywho, to keep this long story short I?ll cut to the end. Eventually, I ended up selling the house to my sister, which was easy, she had decent credit and purchased it as a rental/ investment piece. ( if that had not been an option I would have moved forward with one of the other investors I contacted) I paid her the rent every month and two years later, I purchased the property back from her. I did file chapter 7 immediately after the sale to my sister went through. Allowing me to get rid of my debt and move forward.

Last point, I was able to buy myself 14 months to create money, doing real estate deals with people who were in my same situation; And let me tell you, my experience was that they would much rather hear from someone who was sitting in their shoes and willing to admit it. Which, I did in every letter I sent. My clients ended up feeling far less intimidated and much more comforted by the fact that I knew what it was like to be in their situation and I was not passing judgment, and we had instant ?report?. They could be completely straight with me. And, having been through it, I knew exactly how to handle their situation.

5 years later, I?m still in the business, mainly doing short sale deals, I have great credit which I have had for several years and I am far better at what I do now then before this happened.

So go forth and fight my fellow Illini, there is plenty of time to turn the tides in your favor.

Best of Luck and feel free to contact me if you need to,

C

Re: Investing after Bankruptcy? - Posted by BTI

Posted by BTI on October 28, 2006 at 12:35:24:

Sgt

You sound like someone that’s never been there, so count your blessings. On the other foot it sounds like someone who was stiffed and still hasn’t gotten over it.

One thing I do know is the people that sing this song are usually the same people that ding or dent your car in the parking lot and then take off.

Handling foreclosures and bankruptcy properties showed me 95% of these people were good, honest, hardworking people that were the victims of circumstance. The other 5% were crap, but I won’t tarnish the 95% because of them.

So unless you’ve been there and took the course of action you preach, your opinion is worth less to me then the penny on my desk.

BTI

Re: Investing after Bankruptcy? - Posted by christine mendenhall

Posted by christine mendenhall on October 28, 2006 at 24:57:02:

Oh, I just had a better idea, maybe I should have taken the rents the homeowners were paying me and continue to use that to pay my bills instead of their mortgages… What’s the worst that could have happened to then… We’ll I could have been responsible for unsuspecting people losing their homes and being thrown out on the streets… Yea, that’s surly what I should have done. Now, that would have been responsible?

C

Re: Investing after Bankruptcy? - Posted by christine.mendenhall

Posted by christine.mendenhall on October 28, 2006 at 24:38:27:

Well aren’t we lucky the moral police have showed up. Don’t give me some higher than thou Crap about what should or should not be done in my life. So WHAT that some big corporation didn’t get every last penny of the 14K I owed. BIG DARN DEAL. If you’re on the parade to make changes in the world how bout taking on a game that’s actually going to make a difference. And, do I feel like I owe them a dime. No, I don’t, I paid for my BK through 3 crappy years of bad credit and high intrest rates. The economy got my money one way or the other. Would you have rather seen me or IL Guy go and collect welfare or income tax credits so you can foot the bill? Would that make you “feel” better?

C

Re: Investing after Bankruptcy? - Posted by Sgt.Sausage

Posted by Sgt.Sausage on October 30, 2006 at 22:21:04:

==>these people were good, honest, hardworking people that were the victims of circumstance

And their circumstance … it somehow becomes the lenders problem?

Not.

I know this: When I sign on the dotted line, that’s my name. That’s my reputation. That’s my WORD! That used to mean something to folks of all economic backgrounds.

Apparently it now means diddley-squat.

Thank you for reinforcing that for the rest of our readers.

==>So unless you’ve been there and took the course of action you preach,

Been there, done that … except I never filed. I worked three jobs (two full time, one part time) and played weekend warrior with the Ohio Army national guard – to the tune of over 100 working hours a week … For three years.

Why?

Because I promised to pay. Because my WORD means everything to me.

Re: Investing after Bankruptcy? - Posted by Sgt.Sausage

Posted by Sgt.Sausage on October 30, 2006 at 22:27:35:

==>So WHAT that some big corporation didn’t get every last penny of the 14K I owed. BIG DARN DEAL … And, do I feel like I owe them a dime. No, I don’t …

And that, sadly, is a fine demonstration of your character.

==>And, do I feel like I owe them a dime. No, I don’t, I paid for my BK through 3 crappy years of bad credit and high intrest rates

Less, of course, the $14-Large that you failed to pay. What you originally promised to pay. Backed by the full faith and credit of your signature on the agreement where you gave your WORD to pay.

==> The economy got my money one way or the other.

You squandered your money, one way or the other.

==> Would you have rather seen me or IL Guy go and collect welfare or income tax credits so you can foot the bill?

You think I’m harsh on bankruptcy? Don’t even get me started on welfare.

==>Would that make you “feel” better?

No. What would make us all feel better is if the people of the world started honoring their word again. If promises were more than empty words with an easy escape clause. If folks actually backed up the commitments they made.

Re: Investing after Bankruptcy? - Posted by sean brenneman

Posted by sean brenneman on October 29, 2006 at 19:21:40:

christine,I feel yuh My wife and i are finishing out our ch 13 bankruptcy of 3 years! Its definetly been no walk in the park when you are in ch 13 and have two kids! My wife and i feel and seen our past mistakes and believed that we learned from our past and the chapter 13 has gave us a huge wake call and somewhat a chance again. That guy doesn’t know what it is like to go thru the emotion of bk and to do literally nothing for few years before and after bk! I was one of theses guys who wanted to invest in realestate but didn’t have two red pennys together. Now i realize that i have to do it the old fashion way which is save for the 20% dn payment and buy my first peice of real estate!

a friend;

sean brenneman

Re: Investing after Bankruptcy? - Posted by Rich

Posted by Rich on October 31, 2006 at 24:24:09:

I am so glad to see there are people like you on this site. I was beginning to dispair that ethics were not a part of the lives of the people who frequent this site. Thanks.

Re: Investing after Bankruptcy? - Posted by Christine.mendenhall

Posted by Christine.mendenhall on October 30, 2006 at 22:53:25:

Oh Brother…Really now, I’m busy.

Re: Investing after Bankruptcy? - Posted by Christine.mendenhall

Posted by Christine.mendenhall on October 30, 2006 at 22:42:09:

OH BROTHER !!! Please go do something useful. I do not have the time to debate the issue with you any further. Nor am I going to defend what I did. I’m fine with it, your not, it means nothing.

C

Re: Investing after Bankruptcy? - Posted by Sgt.Sausage

Posted by Sgt.Sausage on October 30, 2006 at 22:30:48:

==>guy doesn’t know what it is like to go thru the emotion of bk and to do literally nothing for few years before and after bk!

How 'bout working over 100 hours a week across three jobs for 3 plus years … specifically to avoid bankruptcy. That’s my story – don’t tell me I don’t know what it’s all about. I put my nose to the grindstone and dug my way out. Most folks in a pending bankruptcy situation could do the same if they had the motivation to do so, or the character to stand up and honor their committments.