Indy BBB just rejected our entire industry!!! - Posted by js-Indianapolis

import · October 16, 2003, 6:20am

Re: Not the Entire Industry! - Posted by Linda Simms

Posted by Linda Simms on October 16, 2003 at 06:20:19:

It is not the entire industry that they are rejecting, just the I buy houses advertisers who want to buy subject to. There are a lot of good points in what the INdy BBB says. Taking subject to has always been a controversial subject. It is suspect at least. On the other hand they equate “buying” with paying off the existing mortgage. I know of no such legal definition. Buying to my understanding is making a contract to purchase in which the terms are fullfilled and the title, not the existing mortgage which is a separate thing, is passed to the buyer. I see nothing illegal or imoral with taking subject to as long as the actual terms and understanding of who has what mortgage and responsibilities are spelled out in the contract. To me it could be shaky and there is too much supposition that the seller could be take advantage of to be worth it. Therefore, I no longer do them.

import · October 14, 2003, 10:40pm

Try some Intelligent discussion ! - Posted by Terry Vaughan

Posted by Terry Vaughan on October 14, 2003 at 22:40:27:

I have been taking down your posts because you only seem to know a few words like “scum bags”, etc.

If you are only going to “Slam” people and not give us a decent arugument about your view point, I will continue to take down your posts.

Let’s hear some ideas instead of “tripe”.

import · October 14, 2003, 6:48pm

Try again - Posted by Hank FL

Posted by Hank FL on October 14, 2003 at 18:48:04:

It sounds like your opinion is the opposite of mine on this, but I’d like to hear what you have to say.

Say whatever it is you said before but from a different angle.

Perhaps that will work.

import · October 15, 2003, 9:07am

ummm… no. - Posted by eric-fl

Posted by eric-fl on October 15, 2003 at 09:07:39:

Actually, their summary is wrong on a few key critical points. The biggest one of which is that subject-to investors “don’t really buy the house”. Actually, yes, they do. The DEED is what signifies ownership. If they sign over the deed to you, you own it, period. Now, the bank could call the loan due, the original seller could file bankruptcy, and on, and on, but ultimately, you own it, including rights of hypothecation. (sp?)

Subject-to purchases are a perfectly legitamite and legal technique. But don’t take my word for it. Take the word of the Department of Housing and Urban Development. Specifically, please look on line 503 of the HUD-1 Settlement Statement form, at this link:

Now, let’s all ask ourselves, once and for all…“Would it be on the HUD form that everyone uses, if it were illegal?”

import · October 14, 2003, 2:21pm

Excellent summary ---- No, a very poor one - Posted by Hank FL

Posted by Hank FL on October 14, 2003 at 14:21:35:

Please don’t tell us you didn’t see all the factual errors.

Either the person that wrote this junk made beaucoup boo-boos in an honest, but clearly incompetent way or this was a hit piece.

Either way, even an investor that doesn’t like the sub2 method should be able to spot how inacurate that B.B.B. summary is.

Your last name wouldn’t be Reed, would it ?

import · October 14, 2003, 1:17pm

Re: Excellent summary - Posted by Sean

Posted by Sean on October 14, 2003 at 13:17:27:

Agreed, I think this is probably the most honest description of what the L/O, Sub 2 business is about… may not like their conclusions about it… but frankly they hit the nail on the head as to what exactly the business is… did a better job than most investigative reporters do when trying to cover the topic.

May not agree with their rejection of businesses doing this type of thing… since a business is a business… regardless. But the assessment is indeed honest as to what the business is.

import · October 14, 2003, 10:15pm

Re: Subject To IS a Scam - Posted by roger

Posted by roger on October 14, 2003 at 22:15:11:

show me a bussiness without some scammers in it and i’ll show you the the 10 apostles and mosses at a strip club ,what the BBB did should be against the law ,to look at one or two cases and condem the whole profession.Lawyers,politicians,wallstreet,you name it it has people that will take advantage of others in time of need or help ,yes even look at the BBB it self and you will fine these people working there ,they are not perfect neither, is the catholic church.
I wonder if they even looked for satisfied customers of R,E,I, personel maybe if we flood thier fax, and e-mail with grievances maybe they will look at the jerk who did this maybe we should do it to the paper that wrote the story too

import · October 14, 2003, 8:16am

“Don’t blame the playa”… - Posted by Hank FL

Posted by Hank FL on October 14, 2003 at 08:16:48:

“Blame the game”. In the case of this subject, don’t blame the game, blame the playa.

Of course there are bad apples in the SFH REI biz - just like anything else.

I’m on the sidelines for a little while, but when I was talking to sellers everyday I would tell them what I thought would be best for them.

If I thought they really ougt’a sell FSBO, I’d tell 'em. If I thought 13 might help, I’d tell 'em. Heck, sometimes I’d even tell 'em to -CHOKE- list with one of those folks with the colored blazers.

I could have talked some more of those people into doing a deal with me, but I’m not into the high pressure, get the sale by any means necessary thing anymore. It’s no longer in me.

If I could HELP them with an investor offer - including, but not limited to keeping the loan in place while “getting the deed” - I would.

One deal that I mentioned here afew weeks ago might illustrate something related to my point.

I “got the deed” on a house that was to go to auction in 1.5 - 2 months. Right after I left, some Realtor knocked on their door and must have told them what I did was a scam. They listed it just to get the listing. “Put my name on the board boss!”

The house went to auction.

Sellers were kinda scr_wed.

Please tell me how the traditional real estate sale process helped those sellers and how mine would have hurt them.

import · October 14, 2003, 5:21pm

That is how the media works - Posted by rm

Posted by rm on October 14, 2003 at 17:21:23:

They can’t keep people from shutting the TV off if they’re just telling “feel-good” stories.

Frankly, if you dig into ANY industry deeply enough, you’ll find similar tales of fraud and malfeasance.

import · October 14, 2003, 9:31am

Your “bottom line” says it all - Posted by DaveD (WI)

Posted by DaveD (WI) on October 14, 2003 at 09:31:48:

“… never, never, never take a bad deal, just to have a deal.”

Good deals that make emminent sense rarely end up going bust. It’s the thin moronic ones that tend to go ugly. Reminds me of an old song … When the moon is in it’s seventh hour, and Jupiter aligns with Mars, then peace will guide the planets, and love will steer the stars …

If your deal is one of these blue-sky things that needs a lot of fancy dancing to happen exactly right chances are you are chasing an acid deal. What’s that?

An acid deal is one who was dreamed up by someone who was obviously on acid! While not imbibing in the stuff, be assured I’ve done investments that didn’t look quite as good the following morning. All were done because there wasn’t something better to pick from. My bottom line… Have enough deals coming in so you don’t feel tempted to chase a bad one.

All the best…
Dave

import · October 14, 2003, 3:42am

Re: I reject the BBB… - Posted by js-Indianapolis

Posted by js-Indianapolis on October 14, 2003 at 03:42:28:

Bill-

Agreed. The BBB would have the worst report ever from entrepreneurs, if they allowed us to report complaints on them to them. Can we make a legal case that through some precedent that they’ve set for all companies that they must honestly and fairly report on themselves? Or do they already have report on themselves? Oh wait, wait, wait. They’ve set a precedent to not report fairly on ANYONE. My bad.

Your story sounds much like mine, my first legit business. I was 20 years of age at the time. The sales rep, sensing that I must be cool, referred to me as “dude” throughout our meeting, and used foul language whenever possible. Told me stories of his sugar mama who got him his job, and concluded by showing me his golf clubs, always in his trunk, which he had just spent a fortune on. Yes, this indeed was relating to my sense of cool as well.

Since we were now bonded in ultra cool unprofessionalism, he confided in me. He informed me the extra $100 a year for the BBB’s gold (or did they call it Care?) package was to “mitigate” any complaints. Went on to tell me how the BBB stands up for its members and that $100 really just ensures a clean record through the “mitigation” process. WOW. We’ve reached a new level of unprofessionalism now. How COOOOL.

My thoughts at the time? Astonished, that I’m trying to run my business legitimately at the time, for the first time, and I’ve go Joe Assclown giving me all the details on the most highly respected source of business reporting. I would have been shocked, if it wasn’t so funny. My real thought? Steve Martin from The Jerk. “So it’s a PROFIT THING!”

These crooks are the worst. They hide behind the guise of helping consumers, and then fight to betray them. They are only there to collect that $300 or $350 a year, and another $100 if they can. This excerpt from http://www.badbusinessbureau.com really spells it out well. Seems to confirm what the mental midget sales boy told me.

Quote
How Does the “Rip-Off Report” Compare to the Better Business Bureau?

The “Better Business Bureau” is another avenue to make your voice heard and to seek possible satisfaction of your grievance. With the Better Business Bureau, a business that is the focus of a complaint merely has to respond to the complaint in order to “satisfy” it most of the time. You won’t be told of past satisfied or unsatisfied complaints about a company. So if you check on a company that has “satisfied” all their complaints, they will tell you that, “they have a satisfactory rating”. You will never know their track record!

import · October 13, 2003, 10:13pm

speaking of which…Creonline BBB membership - Posted by Houserookie

Posted by Houserookie on October 13, 2003 at 22:13:14:

has expired for at least a month now.
I wonder if the Vaughns decided against future membership.

import · October 13, 2003, 9:53pm

Re: I reject the BBB… - Posted by Rob FL

Posted by Rob FL on October 13, 2003 at 21:53:19:

The BBB is a total crock of s. Being a member doesn’t necessary exclude anyone of being an unethical, sleazeball, scam artist that’s for sure. But I joined and spend the $350 or so per year because being a member allows me to stand out.

I can provide the motivated seller with a certificate of BBB membership along with written references from satisfied clients. This puts me up on an golden pillar compared to the 3 other “shady” investors that looked at the property just before me. The seller has alot more trust in me than they do in the other guy, even if it’s just a big crock.

import · October 13, 2003, 9:11pm

Re: BBB ,who & what is that? (nt) - Posted by Brandon

Posted by Brandon on October 13, 2003 at 21:11:29:

Better Business Bureau

import · October 16, 2003, 12:22am

When Autodailers Attack !!! - Posted by Hank FL

Posted by Hank FL on October 16, 2003 at 24:22:16:

Are there investors in your area doing this ?

If so I agree with you.

I never heard one of those calls down here in Tampa.

Your post reminded me of something.

I compiled a good deal of info on how to set up an autodailer campaign for buying houses during the holidays last year.

So I did some traveling and came back a little while ago to find out there’s this big do-not-call thing going on.

I think I’m going to have to add this idea to my new thread list.

To say I’m buying and not selling, and therefore unaffected by this new law is slicing it pretty thin, no?

import · October 14, 2003, 9:21am

Re: Indy BBB just rejected our entire industry!!! - Posted by E.Eka

Posted by E.Eka on October 14, 2003 at 09:21:58:

i see your point Bryan. The BBB didn’t look at the full industry. They just took one aspect and ran with it. Maybe because someone who does subect tos, cussed them out and they got upset and decided to blast the industry. It’s unfortunate.

import · October 13, 2003, 5:04pm

Re: So what… - Posted by js-Indianapolis

Posted by js-Indianapolis on October 13, 2003 at 17:04:22:

Not irrelevant to sellers who think they are some omniscient being. I think the BBB is the most dishonest business out there. This has nothing to do with what I think. It’s the public’s (our sellers) image of our industry that has suffered.

import · October 15, 2003, 5:24am

Re: Subject To IS a Scam - Posted by FrankLee

Posted by FrankLee on October 15, 2003 at 05:24:12:

Roger, the fact that corruption and cheats exist in all facets of society isn’t a defense of the Subject 2 technique. I wasn’t condemning the individuals. More so the technique that the BBB was referencing. I happen to agree with them. And I believe everyone who is honest with themselves will also agree. Though, surely, not publicly.

import · October 14, 2003, 11:23pm

Local IN man sues BBB for misleading the public. - Posted by Houserookie

Posted by Houserookie on October 14, 2003 at 23:23:25:

This BBB “problem” can be turned into an opportunity. The smart investor can get thousands of dollars worth of free advertising in the process.

Too many complainers and whiners in this business. This is an excellent opportunity to file suit against the BBB and call the local news station for coverage.

import · October 14, 2003, 8:43am

Re: “Don’t blame the playa”… - Posted by rm

Posted by rm on October 14, 2003 at 08:43:38:

>

“Get the chalk… get the chalk! Williamson… Williamson- get the chalk! Put me on the board. Put me on the Cadillac board!”

Jack Lemmon, Glengarry Glenross

>

Excellent point. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen agents list property, only to have the home later appear as an REO/HUD/VA.

Apparently, the agents “calculate” a list price by first determining the amount owed, then adding on their commission and closing costs.

Well, this IS how you determine market value, no?

It’s funny, there are more violations of fiduciary duty in real estate than likely any other industry… except maybe builders.

I always had to laugh when agents would say, “Why does our industry have such a bad rep. Why don’t people trust us?”

I’d always think to myself, “Well, LOOK AT WHAT YOU DO EVERY DAY.”

Yes, there are good agents out there, but the industry is set up in such a way that the client’s and the agent’s best interests are often at cross purposes.

And, at times, this is true for RE investors. Key is to recognize the fact and then walk away.