In a quandary - what would YOU do? - Posted by Steve W (WA)

Posted by Jerry Freeman on June 27, 2002 at 11:40:36:

It would depend on how much I was inconvienced by having held the home for them, how needy they seemed, etc.

Good points, Bob.

Best wishes,

In a quandary - what would YOU do? - Posted by Steve W (WA)

Posted by Steve W (WA) on June 26, 2002 at 16:43:16:

Guatemalan buyer and wife, with a 4-yr old son, failed background check for park - forged Social Security cards and driver’s licenses, and lied on application about criminal history - one 2 yr old forgery conviction.

Paid $700 to hold the MH until credit passed; it did not. Was it through no fault of their own? I say not - they lied, so I could keep the $ and say bye-bye.

I will not - I’ll take $100 for my time and return the rest.

A volunteer who works with imported people (and can translate!) told me, when asked, that yes, they are illegal aliens, and yes, they have forged ID and no green cards / proof of citizenship. She just wants to make sure they get their money back. And she is concerned about me taking money for my 4+ hours spent.

I know what my actions will or will not be, but I’d like your opinions please:

In this same situation, would you report them to Immigration (INS)?

Re: In a quandary - what would YOU do? - Posted by Ed C (CA)

Posted by Ed C (CA) on June 27, 2002 at 18:09:40:

Let me tell you a true story about one of my hero’s of life. Young Mexician of 16 illegally enters USA looking for better life. Starts rebuilding wooden pallets for $2.00 each. Works & works to earn enough to buy old pickup truck. Of course La Migra catches up with him, deports him, and truck is gone. This happens to him 10 times over a period of 6 years. He was never on any Government handouts. His family was TOO Proud for that. He was able to gain legal status in USA. And began to build small business for his now growing family. Wife & now 5 childern. I started doing Electrical work for him and his wife 15 years ago (They are together in this business always) They have now build this business into large Corporation employing about 100 people. This couple have continued to show me what America is ALL about. And I am proud to call them my friends!!! (They are citizens now and are doing America proud)

I am glad that all of us can express our opionions with out fear of harm (Well, maybe a few ruffled feathers) But nothing like people from other countries face when expressing opionions.

Regards, Ed

PS - Funny, less than 24 hours ago I was telling Doc about this couple. He is fully aware of all the concerns expressed regarding Immigration. People, the man is a world travler with vast experience on this subject. It is hard to believe that a man of 35 years old could gain all this experience (He claims 35 but to tell the truth, he appears at least 40)

PSS - I would not turn them in and I would keep the $100.00!

Re: In a quandary - what would YOU do? - Posted by JHyre in Ohio

Posted by JHyre in Ohio on June 27, 2002 at 12:07:01:

First off, I’m very biased on this topic. My mother and wife both came here from Latin America, though they had the good fortune to manage it legally. I’ve seen what it’s like down there…if I were a member of any class but the ruling class, I’d do whatever it took to get here- legalities be dam*ed, I’d risk my life for my kids, so breaking the law would only be a mere speed bump. With that said, I don’t think that the US should simply let everyone in- we’d be swamped. Anyone who argues to the contrary is soft-hearted and soft-headed. I live here and am worried about MY kids. My stance: If someone has made the tremendous sacrifice to get here and is hard-working and reasonably law abiding, I leave them be. By reasonably law-abiding, I mean follows the law except for the part about being here illegally. In my book, the forgery is necessary for them to continue staying here…the same b@stards in the INS who let Mohammed Atta in after he self-destructed or give my (very legal) wife a hard time would deport these people in a heartbeat. I’d keep the $100 and let the matter rest. BTW, my and others’ experiences here with Latin American illegals is that they do not want trouble or attention, are quite thankful for what most people here scorn and they pay cash on time. There are exceptions, but the norm is that such immigrants are good people…their kids that grow up here and learn about what we “owe” them are often a different story. I think that keeping only $100 is very reasonable. I would not report these people to the INS. I just happen to have a history with and soft spot for decent immigrants from anywhere.

John Hyre

Re: In a quandary - what would YOU do? - Posted by Indiana Bob

Posted by Indiana Bob on June 27, 2002 at 11:29:44:


I think keeping $100 for your time spent on this transaction is fair. You held the home for them (possibly costing you a quick sale to someone else), you may have run a credit report, and none of it may have needed to happen if they had been honest on their application.

Since I do not see anywhere in your message that the couple is destitute, or that those were the only $700 they owned to their name, I do not believe that you owe it to them to give all money back. I would treat them as I would any customer in the same situation – keep an amount that is fair to the time spent.

As far as reporting them, I wouldn’t do it. All of my grandparents were immigrants, and I agree with Doc that they are typically some of the hardest working people, and aren’t born into the “I deserve it” mentality.


Better California oranges… - Posted by Dr. Craig Whisler CA

Posted by Dr. Craig Whisler CA on June 26, 2002 at 22:48:38:

…than Washington road apples.

Re: In a quandary - what would YOU do? - Posted by Tom

Posted by Tom on June 26, 2002 at 22:19:53:

Tell you what Steve if your so hard up for $100 I’ll send it to you … if you go back and tell that last old lady you bought a mobile home from that you are making 100+ % on the money you screwed her out of.

I happen to have a friend… - Posted by Chris (TX)

Posted by Chris (TX) on June 26, 2002 at 21:15:48:

…who desperately wants to come to the U.S. and do it legally, of course…BUT… the good ole USA makes it d@mn near impossible to do that! I have discovered in the past 7 months that it is a very expensive, bureaucratic nightmare to immigrate to the US in many cases… so the fact that these people you mention are “illegal aliens” actually means nothing to me. Doc is right… they often contribute more to our economy and are far more willing to actually EARN a living than are many native born “Americans”. Yes, 9-11 was a tragedy caused by aliens in this country… but there are some pretty horrible people here who are also native born “Americans”… so there are bad eggs in every bunch and I do not believe there will ever be a way to screen them and keep them from doing damage no matter what their nationality or where they happened to be born.

It will likely take my friend between $10,000 and $20,000 and 2 to 3 years time to have her immigration processed IF… and that’s a big IF… IF it can be done successfully at all. She only wants to come here to escape a crime ridden society she lives in now…in fear for her safety, her life… she wants to come here to help kids… to create a place to help troubled teens, etc… yet our government would prefer to make her stay in her country, instead of coming here and becoming a significant benefit and contributor to our society… it make me very angry just to think about this.

I only bring this up to make you aware of how hard it can be, even if you want to become a legal citizen of the U.S… and there is also huge expense involved. The plane ticket alone for my friend to come here will cost her $6,000 (that is on top of the $10K to $20K). People in a struggling economy, just trying to survive rarely have $6,000 lying around you know, muchless money to cover the immigration process and attorney’s fees, etc.

As far as what I would do in your case Steve… I’d probably give them back their money… all but $100, and then I’d take that $100 and go buy shoes and clothes for the kids… or some other necessity they may be lacking.

Just my .02

Re: In a quandary - what would YOU do? - Posted by Shawn J. Dostie

Posted by Shawn J. Dostie on June 26, 2002 at 19:51:04:

Come on guys, I am probably the most liberal Democrat on this forum, and I would keep their money. It’s not that they lied about their social Security number or identification but they lied about a previous felony conviction for forgery. (I hope the $700.00 wasn’t in a check). In any country, this is not acceptable behavior. Keep at least $100.00, what are they going to do, sue you in small claims Court? If they do, they’ll have to identify themselves, and then they’ll never get a green card.

Good luck,
Shawn J. Dostie(OH)

Re: In a quandary - what would YOU do? - Posted by Tom

Posted by Tom on June 26, 2002 at 18:30:40:

Give them all their money back and get on with what your supposed to be doing. I can’t believe how petty people can be !

No never report them. They will become… - Posted by Dr. Craig Whisler CA

Posted by Dr. Craig Whisler CA on June 26, 2002 at 17:01:30:

…our hardest working citizens someday and they contribute like crazy to our economy. I’d forge my greencard and other papers too, in an effort to bring my family to the richest country in the world, where they would be safe and have a good future. Remenber just what kind of people America was founded and colonized by. They are us a few hundred years ago. Live and let live. We need enterprising and entrepreneural people like her. I would go far out of my way to find a rental somewhere for her and give her a chance. She can’t make too many waves or cause too much trouble because of her illegal status anyway. I bet she would appreciate you giving her a chance and treat you right. Under the circumstances that you described I feel her actions were reasonable.

Steve, PLEASE don’t send her and her children back to a life that was probably a living hell. Sow mercy and reap…

$100 is fair.

Regards, doc

Re: In a quandary - what would YOU do? - Posted by SW(WA)

Posted by SW(WA) on June 27, 2002 at 14:03:04:

I agree

Re: In a quandary - what would YOU do? - Posted by SW(WA)

Posted by SW(WA) on June 27, 2002 at 14:13:59:

I agree

It’s always easy to pass judgment… - Posted by Gary Baird

Posted by Gary Baird on June 26, 2002 at 23:03:49:

when you don’t know the whole story. I was just talking about this with my wife, but now I have a whole new perspective on this situation. I can see both sides, but I definitely side with those who would return their money and try to help them in whatever way I could. Thanks for the info, Chris. It’s always nice to be reminded how LUCKY we are in this country. We take our good fortune for granted.

God Bless,

Re: In a quandary - what would YOU do? For Tom - Posted by Joe

Posted by Joe on June 27, 2002 at 12:41:09:

He does deserve to keep the $100 for his time. Your time is what you do. Just like attorneys. I also own a consulting firm in Seattle for finding employment for disabled people, we are a for profit business and we work on TIME. TIME= MONEY. IT IS A BUSINESSand must be run as one. If I gave everything away for all the hard luck stories guess where I would be. Business is Business.

You’ve just SEEN how petty . Believe it (NT) - Posted by Dr. Craig Whisler CA

Posted by Dr. Craig Whisler CA on June 26, 2002 at 18:45:52:


Re: No never report them. They will become… - Posted by Tennessee Bob

Posted by Tennessee Bob on June 27, 2002 at 15:38:33:

Report them!! Our taxes pay for there health care, food stamps, border patrol officers, INS agents and the list goes on. Not to mention the jobs lost to them and the taxes they don’t pay. I work hard because hundreds of thousands of people on welfare depend on me. It is your duty as an American to do your part to help uphold the laws. Actually, not reporting them may put you in the position of an accomplis. If you know a crime is being comminted and dont report it, your just as guilty. Its time for all of us to stand up and protect ourselves and the law abbiding people around us. They have proven they will commit a crime and lie about it. If you dont turn them in and the next crime commited was against you wife, mother or child, how will you feel? You know the right thing to do, now stand up and do it!

remembernineeleven - Posted by Steve W (WA)

Posted by Steve W (WA) on June 26, 2002 at 17:54:57:

But the same could be said about those guys at the Florida flight school.

I am not asking for advice - I already know what I’m going to do (or not)

I’m just curious about prevailing opinion(s) amongst us who will take their money - or make the call. Especially now that we have a department of Homeland Security, and rightly so. And since we are all now more sensitive to those who walk among us, who, truly, do not belong.

Re: In a quandary - what would YOU do? For Tom - Posted by Tom

Posted by Tom on June 27, 2002 at 13:59:16:

Sorry Joe, he was not selling them his time …he was selling them a mobile home they didn’t get it - give the money back.

What is this role reversal… - Posted by Shawn J. Dostie

Posted by Shawn J. Dostie on June 26, 2002 at 19:53:55:

Come on Doc, there is a time to have a heart, this is definitely not one of them. Felony conviction for forgery sheesh!

Have a nice day,
Shawn J. Dostie(OH)