How to find a bird dog & what/how to pay one. - Posted by Ren

Posted by Frank Chin on July 15, 2001 at 20:21:55:

Thanks Lor for sharing your experience. It was very helpful.

As you obseved, I’ve been doing my own property managemant as they are all within 20 minutes drive. Buying and managing from afar will be a new experience for me.

I did recall you saying in an earlier post that managing certain properties from afar was difficult. I hope its not the ones that Adi is handling.

Frank Chin

How to find a bird dog & what/how to pay one. - Posted by Ren

Posted by Ren on July 12, 2001 at 15:20:30:

I am little new to the residental rental market. Although I have a background in commercial real estate. And I have had a lot of practice in creative deal structure and negoiation. But I don’t have much exp. in finding properties to buy, ( for myself )nor do I have a lot of free time. I do have a little money, a little time, a great credit rating (720+) and a large interest in investing in this area.

In the discussions on this increadible B. Board (CREO) someone mentioned that they use a bird dog. Can anyone tell me how to find one, what to look for in one and how to compensate a bird dog. I live in the Denver area, but I am also willing to look at multifamily R.E. in other areas.

Addionally are there any risks, that one needs to be aware of when working with a bird dog. Is there another way to approch this issue?

Buy the way the deepth of exp., of those who respond to questions on this B.B. is unbeleivible. A great many Kodo’s to those who help, and thanks for making a new investor feel weclome. (sorry about the spelling )


Thanks for helping me regain my excitment! - Posted by Ren

Posted by Ren on July 13, 2001 at 12:24:07:

I just wanted to thank those who sujested ways to approch my discouraging problem. (Lor and Ken)

Please keep my e-mail address in our files, in case I can return the favor. As I mentioned I have some exp. in office, warehouse and retail, investment properties, and I would love to help if I could. ( 12 years as a pro Pm and Investment manager )

Thanks again. I will follow up these items.


How to find a bird dog & what/how to pay one. - Posted by Ken (ILL)

Posted by Ken (ILL) on July 12, 2001 at 20:54:22:

There are easy ways to find “Bird Dogs”. Some are expensive and don’t necessarily give you the results that you are looking for. One easy solution is to hire someone to fill out a form that you made up with house address, conditions, picture(s), etc. Then tell them you’ll pay them $10 or so to go out and find abandoned or “fixer upper” properties, so you can wholesale them to those that want to repair houses. If you get one property out of say 50 filled out sheets (and they MUST be filled out completely with at least 1 picture) then you will probably make at least 100% profit. That is if you only make $1000 per “flip”. All you have to do is act on the info your “bird dogs” get. It’s also good to tell them that you won’t pay for repeats! Good Luck

My Gordon Setter can’t help but I do know a Pro - Posted by Lor

Posted by Lor on July 12, 2001 at 20:34:58:

Hi Ren, I can’t help you with properties to L/O or flip as I only buy and hold or buy and rehab but I’ll
give you the name of someone who can help you find traditional rental properties to purchase with interesting terms. Adiel Gorel with International Capital Group. Phone 415.927.7504. email -

I used him in the early 90’s to find 3 rentals for me. At the time he charged $300-$500 per property but I’m sure the price has gone up. He also helps you to arrange property management. It’s really a very painless way to buy rentals. I turned my dentist on to him in 1993 and he bought 26 houses in Phoenix!

He is very good at identifying appreciating areas and I think it was in 1989 when he found a lot of awfully good deals for his clients in your town of Denver when prices bottomed out. He is still recommending Phoenix, Vegas and Orlando. He has just found condos in Houston very close to the inner loop for 46K that will rent for 600 a month.

For the No-Qualifying set, he has some agreement-for-sale no-qualifying properties in Phoenix, Tamp, San Antonio and Orlando. He just published a book (sorry, I don’t know the name) and he will be speaking in New York, LA and SF Bay Area in July and August. If you are interested, ask him if he’ll be in Denver or call or email and I’m sure he’ll send you literature. Good luck.

Re: My Gordon Setter can’t help but I do know … - Posted by Frank Chin

Posted by Frank Chin on July 14, 2001 at 08:40:33:

Hi Lor:

Adiel Gorel just gave a talk here in New York this past Thursday night. I was just about to ask for anyone’s experiences when I saw your post.

1- Does his organzation find tenants, qualifies them, and sign the leases with them, or do you give the final approval?

2- What’s the tenant turnover like in Phoenix? Do you have to re-rent every two to three years?

3- How long does it take to re-rent a vacant apartment, and how much does it cost to clean, paint advertise and re-rent?

4- Did you ever find it necessary to visit your rentals.

5- How was the repair and manitenance expenses? He explained that he goes for new properties in good areas where such expenses are low.

6- Did you use him in Vegas and Orlando, and if so, was the experience similar?

7- How much did rents and values gone up in Pheonix since the 90’s - assuming you still have the rentals?

Any other comments would be appreciated. Thanks.

Frank Chin

Re: My Gordon Setter can’t help but I do know … - Posted by Lor

Posted by Lor on July 14, 2001 at 12:43:01:

Hi Frank, I actually purchased houses in the Tampa area thru Adi sight unseen. I never did fly out to look at them, just got photos. I resold them to another investor after a few years - which I now regret. Adi only puts the deals together and interviews property management firms until he finds one he likes and can recommend to you. From your previous posts I think you manage your own apts. but I’m a terrible landlady - meaning I might pick a tenant just because they walk in the house and pick a piece of lint off the carpet - instead of checking references etc. so I use property managers for all houses except one. And for that one I am only charging 1K to this nice fellow because he never bothers me even though the going rates are about $1,700.

I personally don’t care for FL. (weather, taxes etc.) so will never invest there again but feel very strongly about the southwest - especially Las Vegas. I took a three week road trip with a friend in June through the southwest and Las Vegas seemed to be the fastest growing, most quickly appreciating. A lot of people from the SF Bay area and LA are relocating to Las Vegas. We visited friends who purchased a new house 4bdr/3ba last year for 123K and it had apprieciated to 163K

From what I remember, he has been finding houses in the Phoenix area for over 10 years so knows that market well and can answer your questions. There are no gimmicks and yes his criteria is to find houses in excellent condition with low maintenance and a break even or positive cash flow.

I would suggest doing an internet search for “Phoenix AZ Real Estate” and emailing a few realtors. Tell them you are thinking of either reolocating or investing in Phoenix real estate and ask what’s been happening to property values for the past 10 years and where they think things are going. -D