How to consummate this deal - Posted by beginner

Posted by John Corey on May 02, 2006 at 02:05:19:


Where north of Boston? I grew up in Lawrence and went to high school in Danvers.

The prices might be expensive but they are far from the highest prices in the US. Hence they are a bit relative to the income levels.

Maybe it is best not to buy right away if you can flip some deals and build up your cash.

Learn to do smart deals in a market that is tough and you will develop great skills that can be applied anywhere you live in the US.

John Corey

How to consummate this deal - Posted by beginner

Posted by beginner on April 27, 2006 at 24:02:49:

Hello everyone,

I have an opportunity to purchase a 2 family that has an in-law apartment in the basement. The asking price was 369,900 but the seller said he’d be willing to take 355,000 (because he has 2 loans on the property). He also would be willing to hold a note for the second if I buy the property.

The problem, of course, is that my credit is marginal 585 and even though I just got married, my husband works for cash. I have never purchased a property in my name (when I was married before, my husband bought a couple of houses in his name only.)

I am classified as disabled although I am not receiving any type of disability payments anymore.

My ex-husband says it’s an excellent deal and he would be willing to help me buy it with his LLC or his personal credit as a last resort.

I am unsure how to do this so any ideas would be appreciated. If I cannot finance the deal, how would I offer the owner a lease option? There is one unit rented for $1200, the other is vacant but there are people I could put in who would pay $1400. Property taxes are $4325 per year. There are no water or sewer fees. Again, I would be living in the basement apartment and possibly could take in a roomate since it’s quite large.

Any ideas anyone?

Thank you very much

Re: How to consummate this deal - Posted by Ed Garcia

Posted by Ed Garcia on April 27, 2006 at 10:38:11:


Both the answers you?ve been given thus far indicate that this isn?t a deal for an investor. I have always said that when we buy our home it doesn?t have to be that good of a deal because it?s our home which gives a preference lifestyle that suit our needs.

However, you?ll be living in the basement, which is not a preferable lifestyle for paying close to market on this deal.

Beginner, it?s obvious that when you were looking at this deal, your turn on button was for you to have free living conditions, nothing wrong with that. But I think you can find another deal that would make more economic sense and you could still accomplish that same goal.

Beginner, it doesn?t take any talent to go out and pay full market for a property. I know that you?re thinking that this isn?t a full market deal but believe me this is not an investor deal. If you were forced to sell the property for what ever reason quickly and got full market value of $370,000 you would lose $7200. The reason is it would cost you 6% for sales commission which is $22,200 and that?s if you didn?t negotiate a penny.

Here is what I tell a Newbie who is starting out.

First, is to evaluate how much time you are going to be able to commit to Real-estate? If your approach is hit and miss, so will be your result.

Second: Go to the street. It is the best teacher. Rather than talk about doing deals, reading in the library, getting courses, JUST DO IT.

You’ll find in the long run, the street is the best teacher. Not only that, by getting out an doing it, you’ll learn your MARKET, meet people to build a NETWORK, learn the demographics as well as the geographics of your area, and of course you would have over come the biggest obstacle in getting started, PROCRASTINATION.

Third: Read every Article you can in the How-Articles of this site, as well as the Success Stories. Then follow the various News Groups, which are live and inter-reacting. Ad the Archives of this site for looking up questions and getting multiple answers and your journey has begun.

We need to do what we call, penciling out a deal. When doing that, we ask ourselves a battery of questions necessary in structuring a deal.

I’m going to give you 5 steps to get you started.

(1) How much do we want to make?

So many times I hear someone act as if they are afraid of loosing a deal because of the profit they put into it. Forget about it. I’d rather be sorry about the deal I did not make, rather than the one I did. The profit is what protects you in a deal.
Don’t be afraid to make it.

When doing a deal I want to make at least 30% and believe me when I tell you, when I structure a deal with 30% in it, I never get it. Some how the profit always dissipates, even after I thought I figured it to the penny.

Would I do a deal with less profit? Yes but I would do it as a flip, lease option, or as a leveraged deal with positive cash flow.

(2) Determine the Value of the Property.

The next thing I must do is determine what the property is worth. The obvious thing to do, is comp it. Don’t let the seller or real-estate broker tell you what it is worth. Get it compted yourself.

(3) Deferred maintenance.

Usually I figure my profit after taking off the deferred maintenance, otherwise it distorts my profit. So it must be figured in the beginning to determine your profit.

(4) Game plan.

What do I want to do with the property? Do I want to fix it and sell it?
Do I want to keep it long term or short term? When I buy a property, I have a plan for it.
And usually I buy it with that plan in mind. This part is so important, I’m going to go into more detail by giving you an example.

Remember, you make your money on the buy.


Each deal speaks for it?s self. For example, if I bought a house for lets say $50,000 and had to put $10,000 into it for fix up. I?m in this deal
$60,000. Now what would that house have to be worth in order for me to feel comfortable to buy it, and debt service it on my line of credit.

$70,000 ? No I don?t think so. I have no room in this deal for error. What if after a month or two I don?t sell it ?
Now remember, we can play the what if game all day. I can create a fast sale for the purpose of this posting to make myself look good, but that?s not the answer. So remember we have to always be careful with hypothetical questions and answers. The profit structure on this deal is not good enough for me to do the deal.

$80,000 ? Were getting better, but No. I have to keep in mind that things can go wrong with my deal. What if I sell it after 2 months, and then the sale falls through after being under contract for 45 days because of financing.

Now I have had the property for 31/2 months, and have to put it back on the market again. Also what if the market changes or slows down ?
Even though I show on paper that I have a $20,000 profit, that?s not so.

For the fun of it, lets take this so call $20,000 profit and structure a Game Plan around it.

(1.) I plug in 6 month worth of debt service on my deal. I?m in the deal $60,000. Interest, depending on the interest of your credit line, lets say for the benefit of our example is 9.5%. Our payments would
then be $475 per month. 475X 6 = $2850.

(2.) What ever the market value you come up with, always cut it 5%. Because realistically, the potential buyer is going to want you to discount your price. Now if you don?t have to, great. But lets face
It. If you were trying to sell it for $80,000 and someone offered you $ 76,000, you know you wouldn?t want to wait for another buyer. You would still be debt servicing the deal. With you luck, you wait another month or two and the next buyer would make
The same offer. Terry Vaughan will tell you, that the first 10% of a deal is water. I agree with Terry, but for the purpose of this deal we?ll just keep it at 5%. So lets take off another $4000.

(3.) I always plug in a realtor. Now I know that there are a lot of Geniuses out there that don?t need them. They are so great that they can sell the property themselves. Great, you plug in a Realtor. 76,000 X .06 = $4,560.

Lets recap. A sale of $80,000, gives us on paper a $20,000 profit.

-$ 2,850 Debt service
-$4,000 5% Discount
-$4,560 6% Sales commission.

Potential Profit $8,590.

As you can see the profit dissipates quickly. and personally I don?t think It?s enough to take the risk your taking with your line.

How about $90,000? Now all of a sudden the deal can make sense. we have between a $17,500 and $18,000 profit.

Lets look at our LTV (loan to value). 60,000 divided by 90,000 = 67% LTV.

So you see the deal speaks for it?s self, but the structuring of a deal with a Game Plan is what will let you know if you should do the deal.

(5) Financing.

How am I going to take my deal down? An I going to create a seller carry back, and use a lender to give some money to the seller? Will the seller carry back the whole deal? Will I have to buy it with a combination of down payment and financing?
Or will I pay cash and then refinance it later, getting all of my money back.

These are just a few basic fundamentals of doing a deal. I hope this is some help to you.

Ed Garcia

Re: How to consummate this deal - Posted by CGD

Posted by CGD on April 27, 2006 at 09:31:25:

The property does not cashflow from a lender’s standpoint, even with perfect credit.

With a 30 year mortgage, and 6.5% interest (which would be impossible to obtain with your FICO), and taxes at $4325/yr, your looking at $2604 payments.
With a high 500s score, you’d be looking at probably a 20 year term, and 9-9.5%, which would be payments of $3554/month. These do not even account for maintenance, insurance, and any vacancy/collection losses. You’re cash flow would be around -$1200/month.

You also say that the seller has two loans on the house, and would take $355k. If he is willing to take less to pay the loans off, he can’t give a seller-held note, as the sales proceeds must first pay off his note.

I’d keep looking. This has disaster written all over it.

Best of luck.

Re: How to consummate this deal - Posted by James Harris

Posted by James Harris on April 27, 2006 at 05:59:44:

Beginner, Just to let you know. If your not working nor have any income, it will be very difficult to obtain a loan. Besides, just looking at this deal it seems, to me, that here is no deal here. Consider the paynents of this loan, an 80/20 loan might be about 9-10% on the first and maybe a 12-15% on the second. Assuming that you rented out the rest as you spoke of; How would you live? It would seem as if all income would have to be used for monthly expenses. It would be better if your ex could buy it for you and you could lease option it from him. Just a thought.

Re: How to consummate this deal - Posted by Beginner

Posted by Beginner on April 30, 2006 at 11:29:48:

Thank you everyone for your advice. I will pass on this deal, however, I live just north of Boston where EVERYTHING is expensive. It is not the midwest where properties are more affordable.

Thank you again for your advice.