Guru Website Review - Posted by Sonny Card

Posted by Rob on June 25, 2002 at 11:51:45:

Here we go again! Since I am from the bay area, I noticed that most of all the so-called gurus that JTR recommends are from our area.

I have this to say:

All those successful students, or followers of JTR, step forth and produce RESULTS of his teaching.

I do know that there are many that are successful students, and followers of other gurus that have produced many success, and RESULTS.

Like Bruce Norris said, even though he has done over 500 houses, he would still pay to learn from Ron LeGrand, the man who brought and sold over 1,000 houses. Norris said, he is more than will to pay the 5,000. Did you not forget that on Wednesday night, Ron at the Wealth Builder meeting. Why would he say that?


Guru Website Review - Posted by Sonny Card

Posted by Sonny Card on June 22, 2002 at 15:56:32:

Hi, I have just read John T. Reeds guru website review and he has a rather different take on a lot of the advice in this forum.

He seems to be very critical and believable, and I wondered what everyone has to say about this very experienced real estate investor.

You will probably have to do a search to find hs site.

Thanks, Sonny

Re: Guru Website Review - Posted by jevon

Posted by jevon on June 28, 2002 at 04:17:07:

I looked at his web site for about and hour. that is all I needed to realize this is not the guy you want to be looking to for advise. He is negative and flat out wrong about many things. He said he never knew of a carlton sheets student that made any money so I introduced myself in the email I sent to him.

Re: Guru Website Review - Posted by BIGDADDY(MD)

Posted by BIGDADDY(MD) on June 26, 2002 at 18:17:29:

Let’s see. Did you find it interesting that an individual that is a self proclaimed critic is constantly pushing his own materials throughout his site while he is criticising others. Wouldn’t this be the equivalent of one crook chastising another crook for being a criminal while holding up a store. Just a thought. His moral guidance is his wallet. If you use Mr. Reed’s site for making your real estate course selection you should take into consideration that although he does point out all of the trouble other so called guru’s have had I would think that he would state his misfortune’s for public review and comment. In any of his numerous sections throughout his site where he is pushing his products. Also, has anyone found it odd that he reviewed his own mother yet not himself. Just some thoughts. Also, I am not a guru just a real life real estate investor that found this site about 2 months ago. Just remember this that all things are possible in real estate.

Re: Guru Website Review - Posted by Rich Dallas

Posted by Rich Dallas on June 25, 2002 at 10:22:27:

John Reed is VERY GOOD!
And he is valuable, in that he helps you keep things in perspective. However, as Critical as he is of the “GURUS”, I know people whose only real estate education is the Carleton Sheets course and they are doing very well. John Reed provides a “balance” to the self promotion of the Guru types.

J.T. Reed is a VERY Experienced RE Investor??? - Posted by Ken

Posted by Ken on June 23, 2002 at 12:00:26:

LOL! The man hasn’t done a deal in about 20 years!

For the most part Reed is worries like an old lady about everything. Nobody takes him seriously.

Re: Guru Website Review - Posted by Ronald * Starr (in No CA)

Posted by Ronald * Starr (in No CA) on June 22, 2002 at 18:17:23:

Sonny Card----------------

I agree with most of what Linda says.

I think Jack Reed’s guru rating service is a definate service. If you study the people that he recommends, you can not go wrong, in my opinion. It may be that he is more negative on some individuals who he does not recommend than a consensus would be. There are people who invest who say that about some individual persons that he is negative about. However, I think MOST of the negative ratings are well deserved. Some of the people he “does not recommend” are scum and worse.

Read the achives and you will find many opinions about Jack Reed, some quiet emotional, some more measured. And while you will find lots of posts such as yours, you will find a lot of responses to those posts also.

Good InvestingRon Starr***

Re: Guru Website Review - Posted by Linda L

Posted by Linda L on June 22, 2002 at 16:15:23:

Sonny - you must be new to this site. We receive about 2-3 posts a week similar to yours - where a new investor does a search on ‘Carleton Sheets’, finds the John T. Reed site, and then comes here and tries to tell the world what a scam they’ve found. Not true - just go to the archives on this site and you can read all you want about John Reed - I’m guessing you’ll find at least over a 1000 posts but most will be the same as the one you put up here.

Re: Guru Website Review - Posted by bob

Posted by bob on June 25, 2002 at 15:25:45:

He needs to look in the mirror - His monthly newsletter is a rip off!

Yes, he is. - Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA)

Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA) on June 23, 2002 at 14:07:13:


Yes, Jack Reed was a real estate investor for something like 25 years. That, in my book, makes him a very experienced real estate investor.

He has also been writing real estate investment newsletters for something like 20 years. He talks to real estate investors regularly, so is probably not out of touch with the market as much as would be suggested by your comment about him not owning property for a while. He lost gave back to the lenders two apartment houses in TX when the oil patch debacle of the late 1980s caused them to be worth less than the loan balances and the rents could not sustain the expenses. How many people even have two apartment houses to lose?

He is very analytical and understands things pretty well. He does not like a lot of the techniques that some people discuss on CREONLINE.COM, that is true, such as subject to, lease option, and unsophisticated-seller carry-back mortgages. He also has very high moral principals. That alone may bother some people. Does it bother you?

He is mostly an advocate of the old-fashioned apartment house investment. Pay cash down payment, get a fixed rate loan, hold for the long haul. Nothing wrong with that approach, in my opinion. Except some people can’t afford to do it and so may need to take some other approach to investing.

Good Investing********Ron Starr*************

Re: Guru Website Review - Posted by K MCDONALD

Posted by K MCDONALD on June 22, 2002 at 18:34:06:

i know that he likdes john beck and his course but not the company doing the infomercial

Re: Yes, he is. - Posted by JohnBoy

Posted by JohnBoy on June 23, 2002 at 17:52:22:


I would hardly call buying real estate using conventional methods being VERY experienced in “creative real estate” investing. In fact, he seems to have a problem with anything that pertains to “creative real estate” investing methods.

Also, some of his guru ratings are based solely on assumptions and some are assumptions based on never reading the guru’s material. Only what he thinks he knows about the guru and/or the methods they write about. I’m sure some of his ratings are accurate and that is what really is a shame! If he is biased on some of the guru’s ratings then how does the reading know which ratings to believe? If your ratings are way off and biased on some then how can you trust anything he has to say about any of them?

Here’s an example of what Reed states:

“Scott Britton - University of Real Estate Letter—I do not recommend
According to a promotional mailing I received, he sells a video in which you learn how to “make $10,000 in 98 days.” $10,000 divided by 98 = $102.04 per day or $102.04 divided by eight hours = $12.76 per hour. According to my local want ads, you can make that much in jobs like the following: driver, chauffeur, customer service, child care site supervisor, carpet cleaner. Britton’s way of making the $12.76 a hour is rehabbing buildings that you must buy, rehab, then sell to get your money. There is far less risk and effort in a customer-service job.”

Now Ron, anyone that has seen this tape and anyone that knows anything about Scott will know that everything Reed says here is not true! Not even close! So WHY would he exaggerate something like this? The only thing I can see why he would just make this up the way he did is solely to promote the sale of his own products! I can’t see any other logical reason for him to exaggerate this the way he did.

No where did this video show or imply that Scott spent 8 hours per day for 98 days working on this property where he made $10k. In fact, Scott PAID OTHER PEOPLE to do all the work! What Scott did was come across the deal, negotiated buying the deal, hired contractors to do the work, over seen the work, and resold the property making a $10k profit! So how much actual time did SCOTT actually spend on this deal??? No where NEAR 784 hours that Reed would like his readers to believe! So is that what Scott really made on this deal, $12.76 per hour??? Not even close! So how many actual hours could someone expect to spend on a deal like this where they contract out all the work to be done? Lets give a GENEROUS estimate and say Scott actually spent a total of 50 hours of his own time on this deal. That would be $200 per hour that Scott would have made without doing any of the labor involved. Can you get a customer service job that pays $200 per hour as Reed exaggerates you could??? Of course not!

Robert Allen he does not recommend? His opinions are way off. Allen’s book is one of the all time classics and a must read for anyone getting into real estate. And Allen’s personal problems with his BK has nothing to with this and from my understanding his BK had nothing to do with his real estate investing. It was over other ventures other than real estate investing that lead to that.

Bronchick he disagrees on over the due-on-sale clause in which he writes his opinions on that in my opinion are plain bogus.

He does not recommend Claude Diamond because he stated only 50% of tenants that L/O end up not exercising the option. That is bogus! Considering MOST tenants on a L/O are high risk tenants to begin with, I would say if 50% do end up exercising their options that that is a very high success rate!

Next he talks about Diamond stating:

“On 6/29/00, Bill Mencarow told he he had just learned that Diamond bought the number one ranking for the key words ?Paper Source? at Apparently this means that anyone who searches for ?Paper Source? in search engine will get a list with Diamond at the top. Mencarow takes umbrage at this because he has been publishing the newsletter PaperSource and putting on the Paper Source convention for many years. A common law called ?unfair competition? may be pertinent. ?Unfair competition? is defined in Black?s Law Dictionary in part as ??endeavoring to substitute one?s own?products in the markets for those of another, having an established reputation and extensive sale, by means of imitating?the name, title,?the imitation being carried far enough to mislead the general public or deceive an unwary purchaser, and yet not amounting to an absolute counterfeit or to the infringement of a trademark or trade name. Singer Mfg. Co. v. June Mfg. Co., 163 US 169?”

Really? Is this not simular to what Reed does to draw people to his site when people type Carleton Sheets into search engines??? How is Reed any better???

Bill Gatten he does not recommend. Reed seems to appoint himself as an authority of Gatten’s material yet he apparently has never read it!

Reed states:

“Someone sent me an email Gatten uses to promote his $139 PACTrust ?workshop.? My first reaction is that people dumb enough to fall for this stuff, deserve to. Here?s a sample. ??you can own?unlimited ?income-producing?real estate?without cash or credit?in as little as a few days.? How can people read a sentence like that then call me and ask if I recommend this program? If you think there is any chance that statement is true, a guardian should be appointed to handle your affairs.”

First of all, notice how Reed only takes out the parts he likes to suit his needs to criticize this? Second, its obvious Reed has NO experience in “creative real estate” because if he had he would know that you CAN own real estate income producing real estate without cash or credit in as little as a few days! Those of us that have done it and do it everyday know better! So Reeds “assumption” based on his own inexperience in this matter is false!

Joe Kaiser he does not recommend. Another joke of Reed’s bogus opinions! First of all, it is well known that Kaiser’s L/O course is written for investors that already understand lease options. It is an advanced course on techniques to find more lease option deals. It is not a course written for the layman looking to get started with investing in lease options. He attacks the way Kaiser uses a lot of white space in his course. It is not the amount of space that is used to write a course that is important, but only the quality of the content that is important. I see nothing wrong with using extra white space to make it easier for the reader to read. That does not take away from the quality of the content.

Reed goes on to state:

“Kaiser then published a critique of my article which I did not believe described what I said accurately.”

This is just too funny!!! REED has room to talk about anyone not accurately describing what he said??? LOL He’s the grand master of not accurately describing what others have said!!!

Ron LeGrand he does not recommend. His review is a joke! I will agree $9k is a lot of money for a seminar, but at the same time LeGrand has and still does turn out a LOT of very successful students that become very successful in real estate investing. You cannot just ignore those facts! And of the 5-6 years that I have been reading this site I have yet to see anyone post here claiming they were ripped off by LeGrand or feel they did not get what they paid for. Would I pay that kind of money for a seminar? Not me! But that doesn’t mean there is anything wrong with what he teaches. He has many of successful students doing very well in real estate and you just can’t argue with success!

Then of course there is his ridiculous opinions about this site!

There are some gurus he does not recommend that I would agree with. However, since there are gurus that I do know about and based on their materials that I have read where I see Reed has either taken his opinions out of context, and/or exaggerated what he says, and/or just out right falsely stated…how could anyone listen to anything he has to say about anyone unless you yourself have read the material of that guru and know whether what Reed says is accurate or not??? You can’t!

I can go on and on about this but I see no point since this has been beat to death many times already.

So in my opinion the bottom line is this.

Reed is just his own self appointed critic. A lot of his opinions are biased and formed without ever reading the gurus materials. He has his own products to sell which he constantly tries to push onto his readers by claiming his stuff will tell you the real way to invest where the other gurus are telling you illegal and unethical ways to invest.

There is no way any person in their right mind could ever believe anything he has to say about any of the gurus he gives opinions on UNLESS you the reader have personally reviewed that gurus material first hand.

So if you are looking for excuses NOT to get into this business then go read his site and suck up all the exaggerated BS he has to say and give yourself an excuse to fail!

If you want to find excuses to get into this business and succeed with this then stay away from his site and ignore anything he has to say because his negative, over exaggerated BS will only get in your way. Instead surround yourself with the people that are doing it and that are successful doing it.

It’s your choice!

Re: Yes, he is.NOT - Posted by Julius Levai

Posted by Julius Levai on June 23, 2002 at 15:03:22:

Ron ! I have to disagree with you on this (him). But then again, look at the movie critics; you do not need to produce any movies in order to call yourself a critic, that is were he falls into. Being on 60 Min. and Harward get old after awhile. Since he is advocating the “normal” way of investing; 20 % down, agents, banks involvement, where is the creative part? Youre looking at him biasly because youre in his book, rise above that, and youre capabale to do so.. Youve missed a great picnic, all the good Hungaran food and women… Julius Levai

Re: Yes, he is.NOT - Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA)

Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA) on June 24, 2002 at 12:49:43:

Julius Levai–(CA)----------------------

You are right, he does not advocate “creative investing” techniques. Which I pointed out. However, that is not, in my opinion, much of a criticism. As he points out, there may be ethical considerations when one uses these techniques with unsophisticated buyers and sellers. He says if you are dealing with a sophisticated party, do whatever you want to do, pretty much.

He still provides good information on real estate investing in his books, in his newsletter (perhaps less so in the past year or so), and on his website.

Good Investing*************Ron Starr***********