Guru said to read this. - Posted by The Guru

Posted by Suzanne on January 07, 2002 at 13:45:52:

The information given on this board and in the articles, isn’t going to waste. There are those of us that come here to expand our expand our horizons by learning a new concept, or getting a new idea. The cost is in the time spent reading to glean the information off of this board.

Maybe what has been left unsaid for so long needs to be said once in awhile. Thank You.

The experts and others on this board do more than just give information and helping people. They encourage, movitate, go out of their way to either give the right answer or point the person where they can find the right answer.

As far as muchers looking for free information. This is one mucher saying thank you. My family is in poverty, and have very little. We are sick and tired of where we are at. Without the free information I have gotten here I would have dropped REI awhile back, if the only thing I had to go on was a course that gave a good overview of REI, and the only course I knew about was a highly expensive.

This board, articles, and the sucess stories have shown me that this is what I want to get into. Gave my husband and I the courage to try our first two deals, and make plans to get the money for some courses. Our first two deals fell through and we run into some brick walls, but we are still going to try. We plan on getting those courses with our tax return. In the meantime, I plan to keep reading what I can.

Yes, even if some of these experts on this board do not realize it, they are helping some out of poverty. If I’m in poverty, how am I online? We got this computer with last years tax return, and local internet doesn’t cost that much.

I’m looking forward to having to pay taxes next year instead of getting a tax refund.

Guru said to read this. - Posted by The Guru

Posted by The Guru on January 07, 2002 at 01:00:35:

Why are there so many self proclaimed Real Estate Gurus willing to sell you their secrets for only a few hundred dollars? If these “gurus” can actually make millions in Real Estate then why are they wasting precious time with an infomercial? If I was a Real Estate millionaire I would teach people one at a time and receive 1/2 of their profits.

Certified Guru Response - Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA)

Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA) on January 07, 2002 at 22:40:23:

“Guru”------------

Show me your certificate! Show me proof that you are really a guru. I have two guru certificates, recently awarded me on this forum. So, while I can not talk for other gurus, I can give you my perpective.

I agree with a lot of what was already presented to you in response to your question.

Steve Cook said it well: we make more money with real estate than with teaching.

I answer a lot of questions for free because I like helping people. Also, as JohnBoy says, I get a chance to rethink how real estate investing works. Over time, I often find a new way to explain things, I find a new way to view things. This makes talking abour real estate interesting. I would be bored with many things. Real Estate is not boring. There is always something new to understand.

You will see many posters commenting on still learning after 20 years in the business. Boy, is that true. I thought I knew a lot about real estate and real estate investing a year ago. But, reading this forum and simliar ones, I have learned a lot more.

Now, I suspect that some people may actually enjoy seeing their names in print. And, while we rarely mention it, there are occasional people saying that we make a difference in their lives. A few people even thank us. Once in a while I will see somebody comment that they listen to Ron Starr. Well, hey a little acknowledgment goes a long way. A little attention and stroking will often get me to post again.

Also, the truth is that real estate is not always fun. The non-paying renter, the month-long vacancy, the problems with the leaking roof. Sometimes it is nice to deal with something that won’t hurt me. Sometimes it is nice to do some good and not have a huge responsibility for the outcome. I sometimes propose solutions to problems when I do not know if the solution will work. Usually I label it by saying “I’ve not done this, but you might try . . …”

Now, I will confess, I enjoy writing. I enjoy teaching people. My social life is not very exciting, as some people might guess from how much time I spend responding to posts. So interacting with people here at CREOLINE.COM gives me social interaction.

Now, show us your certificates.

Good InvestingRon Starr******

Re: Guru said to read this. - Posted by SCook85

Posted by SCook85 on January 07, 2002 at 16:32:17:

I do it simply because I like helping people. My course makes me a little bit of money, but I make far more with my real estate investing. I have people inquiring all the time as to when I’m going to do seminars and bootcamps and I am having a really hard time justifying doing them.

I do very well with real estate investing. When I teach people to invest I give them all I have and I fear that if I do a seminar/bootcamp that I’ll drive myself crazy trying to make every attendee successful. The amount of time I put into one person, multiplied by the attendees would put a serious damper on where I make my real money- Investing!

Steve

Re: Guru said to read this. - Posted by Ed Garcia

Posted by Ed Garcia on January 07, 2002 at 11:03:58:

Guru,

I’m called a Guru, now that I teach financing on the other web page and do workshops. Personally I think that’s a silly name, but what the hell, I’ve been called worse.

By you calling yourself Guru and then asking a question like you have. It seems, as though you’re a Gu without a Ru, so for starters, I’d change my name.

Bill Bronchick, who is considered by today’s definition, a true Guru, said that if he had won POWERBALL lotto (70 million dollars). At first, I thought, I would just do free seminars and give away books. Then, I thought hard about it and realized that it WOULD NOT CHANGE THE 90/10% ratio. People who are truly motivated and committed care not about the price of their education, but rather the REWARDS of it.

Lets STOP right there. Why would a man who just won (70 million dollars) do anything?
FOR THE LOVE OF IT. I know Bill Bronchick, we’ve had scrabbles many times on this board and will most likely do it again, and I can tell you that the statement the man just made has given me the utmost RESPECT for the man. It also answers your question.

I was introduced to this website by the owners Terry and J.P. Vaughan. Terry and I have been friends and have done deals together for a lifetime. I went to their very first Convention at their request and as their guest. I did it out of courtesy for our friendship. When Terry and J.P. told me about the web site I thought it was a bunch of crap. You see the school I come from, you don’t show or teach anybody what you know because the next time you see them, they will be your competitor.

But as I watched the board I couldn’t help but answer a few questions. I didn’t feel intimidated by competition because I was answering a question for someone who was on the other side of the country. As time went on I answered more questions and then met an Ed Garcia I didn’t know. I met Ed Garcia the teacher. I can’t tell you how REWARDING it felt to HELP the people you teach and I did for 2 years for free. Bronchick knows, that’s why even if he won 70 million, he would still do it.

For many of us money isn’t the reason, it’s only the justification.

You’re right; we can do deals and do. If you want to reach me on Feb 5th, you’ll have to call Washington, because that’s where I’ll be spending 3 days looking at shopping centers with my brother in-law. At Terry’s and my last workshop were we had a standing ovation god bless those people, and we made an announcement that it most likely would be our last workshop.

Right now we have 151 requests for our next workshop and we didn’t even advertise or have one planed. Of course we now have second thoughts. One thing you can be sure of, I do it because I want to.

Guru, there could be many reasons a man does what he does. Sometimes he finds his life to take a different course. Sometimes he wants a change because he is capable of making a living do many things. Most of the people I have come across in the business either do deals or have done deals, which in either case would qualify them as a deal maker. I use to think that people who teach were people who couldn’t make it. I was wrong. I can see that now that I’m one of them.

Good luck to you Guru, some day I hope you live up to your self given name.

Ed Garcia

Some insight - Posted by William Bronchick

Posted by William Bronchick on January 07, 2002 at 09:35:37:

Let me give you some insight from being in the education business for 8 years. I started out teaching people how to find deals, so they would bring them to me and I would get 1/2.

Know what happened? 90% of them did nothing and the other 10% kept all the money. So I started charging for my time!

You will discover that in this business (and in life), 90% of people TALK about success, and the other 10% ARE successful.

I have thought about what I would do if I won POWERBALL lotto (70 million dollars). At first, I thought, I would just do free seminars and give away books. Then, I thought hard about it and realized that it WOULD NOT CHANGE THE 90/10% ratio. People who are truly motivated and committed care not about the price of their education, but rather the REWARDS of it. People who whine about the price of seminars and try to “mooch” free advice from others have no respect for the value of knowledge, and I want nothing to do with these people, and neither should you.

Re: Guru said to read this. - Posted by GL

Posted by GL on January 07, 2002 at 09:34:01:

  1. It’s easier, for some people. If you have the salesman type personality it is easier and more fun. This is why most RE salespeople never invest themselves.

2)There is no reason you can’t do both. It’s pretty hard to buy real estate every day of the week. When you get big enough you have office staff for the routine stuff.

  1. There is lots to go around. The whole world is covered in real estate. The biggest mogul in the world doesn’t own even 1% of the real estate in his selected cities.

  2. Why does Ford make more money in one year than Rolls Royce does in a century? You can make way more money selling something for $200 to a million people than you can selling it for $1,000,000 to one person.

  3. In most cases they had a least a little experience before they decided they liked selling courses better than real estate. But a few are complete phonies who copy semone else’s material and never did what they say they do.

one sentance sums it up… - Posted by Chris - Fl

Posted by Chris - Fl on January 07, 2002 at 09:22:59:

If you help enough people get what they want …you will get what you want. -Zig

A better question… - Posted by ken in sc

Posted by ken in sc on January 07, 2002 at 07:04:58:

might be “Why do so many investors with so much experience give their knowledge away for free over and over again on this board?”

I am not the most experienced, richest, or best invesor on this board or even close. But I have been around REI long enough to know that experienced investors typically LIKE to help the inexperienced ones who ask in a nice way. I think that they see a lot of themselves when they started out - having the same concerns and questions - and want to help. Wishing sometimes that someone had helped them. Or maybe repaying because someone did. Also, those of us in REI like to talk about it, and our friends and relatives don’t understand mostly. So people who help (and I think the Guru’s as well) do this to be around others who enjot REI.

As in anything, there are some bad apples. But I believe that most Gurus, and most on this board, are there because they truely want to help, and enjoy doing it. If you get to that point, you may find yourself the same way. There are things in life that money cannot buy.

Ken

Guru’s Reply - Posted by utahinvestor

Posted by utahinvestor on January 07, 2002 at 01:12:13:

Most start by charging you a few hundred dollars. That is the teaser. That get’s you involved and interested. Hardly anyone can do a deal with anyone’s system. You need a coach, mentor and/or bootcamp which is $500 - $8,000. That’s how it’s done.
Why don’t they just do it themselves?
Some do & do well. Other’s get rich selling programs.
Why do some go have success & teach a program?
They do require a %. Would I rather have 100% of my 1 or 2 deals a month, or 50% of the profits of what 25 people are doing that I’m coaching. Which is more?
Why Coach/Mentor?
Good question. For those that are honestly teaching others to be successful, they want to give something back to society. I don’t want to open a homeless shelter, or volunteer at a rape center. I want to give people financial freedom.
Does that answer your questions?

Re: Guru said to read this. - Posted by Sally (WA)

Posted by Sally (WA) on January 07, 2002 at 18:18:18:

Ed,

When you are up this way stop by Bill’s place and lets have lunch. I’ll take you to the super secret store to pick up some goodies.

Regards

I think this says it all! - Posted by Rich[FL]

Posted by Rich[FL] on January 07, 2002 at 11:43:09:

I couldn’t have said it better! Great job Ed! Hope to see you at the next workshop!

Rich

152, now. NTXT - Posted by Brent_IL

Posted by Brent_IL on January 07, 2002 at 11:16:23:

nt

And I contend… - Posted by JT-IN

Posted by JT-IN on January 07, 2002 at 10:30:49:

That the value of something free, is worth exactly what you pay for it!

I often wonder about the reams and bytes of posts and questions here on creonline. They get thoughtful and very time consuming answers, from many experienced investors, and the answers to which are many times, just blown off by many of the receipients, because they have nothing invested in asking the question.

A committed question, especially by one who is spending money to ascertain this advice, tends to make one pay attention to it’s answer…

It goes right along with your 90/10 rule…

Kind of like 10% of the people do 90% of the business. There’s a lot to be said for the 90/10 rule, both in and out of RE investing. It

Just the way that I view things…

JT-IN

Ditto!!! (nt) - Posted by Alan in Houston

Posted by Alan in Houston on January 07, 2002 at 14:44:12:

nt

Re: Guru said to read this. - Posted by Ed Garcia

Posted by Ed Garcia on January 07, 2002 at 19:22:19:

Sally,

What do you mean you’ll take me to the super secret store to pick up some goodies? Talk about get my attention. LOL

I’ll call you and give you my cellular #. I’ll actually be coming up on the 4th, but I know Nat has a heavy itinerary planed for me.

Till then,

Ed Garcia

And further I contend - Posted by Marcos

Posted by Marcos on January 07, 2002 at 10:50:01:

>> They get thoughtful and very time consuming answers,
>> from many experienced investors, and the answers to
>> which are many times, just blown off by many of the
>> receipients, because they have nothing invested in
>> asking the question.

I have learned tons just by reading the posts of others. I may not have asked the question. But when JohnBoy goes off on another one of his books, I learn something. And When Ron Starr pipes in I may not comment, but I durn sure listen. And probably about 20 others that I have learned to respect and will read every one of their posts even if I “think” I know the answer.

So, I agree that many times the answers are blown off by the original questioner. But, that doesn’t account for the silent majority that read the posts and get a further distinction on the subject. I’ve learned more from “free advice” given here from the humble yet knowledgeable posters than from my attorneys and accountants that I’ve paid thousands of dollars for. So, it’s not always what you pay for it.

Marcos

Re: Guru said to read this. - Posted by Michigan Andy

Posted by Michigan Andy on January 07, 2002 at 22:00:42:

Dear Sally:

Can I bribe you with some Mardi Gras beads for some of Bill’s super-secret goodies?

Haven’t heard or seen from you lately, but then again, I haven’t been on the site much lately (my loss). The last time we met, my wife and I were looking for a cab with you on Bourbon St.

How are things going for you?

Success,
Andy

Re: And further I contend - Posted by JohnBoy

Posted by JohnBoy on January 07, 2002 at 11:51:55:

Actually, you ARE still paying for it! Only, you’re paying for it in other ways than paying for it with money. You’re paying for it by staying persistent and taking the time to continue to educate yourself. Those that recieve free advice from a place like this that take advantage of it and never do anything with it, are the only ones that aren’t paying for anything. Those that do do something with it are paying something. If you do something with it then you are paying by taking the time to learn, taking the time to go out and apply it, taking the time to make it work for you, and sooner or later you’re investing into your education by investing in books, courses, seminars, etc., whether you may be paying the person you learn from or not. So in one way or another, those that take anything they can learn for free by just asking, IS paying for it somehow. Only those that do nothing with what they get for free are the ones that never pay for anything because they only get what they invest into it, which is NOTHING! You do get what you pay for!

Also, even though many people here will share what they know and ask nothing in return, are recieving something back. For some it may be the pleasure they get in being able to share, or being able to communicate with others that share the same interest, or to be able to help those in need to give something back, or because they just enjoy being able to talk about what they know and can share it with others that have the same interests. For me, one of the greatest benefits isn’t only because being able to share this stuff with others is a lot of fun, but it allows me to expand on my own knowledge.

In order to respond to a lot of the questions being asked here requires a lot of thought to be put into responding to the questions. By being able to respond to a lot of questions and having to put a lot of thought into the answers allows someone like myself to keep on top of my own game by being able to sharpen my own skills and keeping my mind creative. Just because someone may have a lot of knowledge doesn’t mean this stuff is always at the top of our heads. By being able to share and keep our minds sharpen by being able to have a place like this to come to. So you see, many of us that come here and share what we know gain just as much, if not more than those that come here and are new that are trying to learn. Even the pros are paying something. They pay by taking the time to come here and answer questions that some will take a lot of thought to answer. In return for paying by taking the time to answer questions we get to learn new things and sharpen our own skills that allow us to keep our own creative juices flowing. There may be a lot of things we already know, but that doesn’t mean these things are always at the top of our heads. Seeing a lot of the questions asked and being able to put a lot of thought behind answering some of them allows those things we may have known about to remain at the top of heads. A lot of knowledge gets stored away into the back of your mind. Things you may have forgotten about. Coming here to a place like this site allows us to keep those things we may have forgotten about to remain at the top of our heads and even help to expand our own creative thinking process. We get to sharpen our own skills as we grow. So one way or another, we ALL pay in some way for being able to come here to share and learn from each other.

When you take someone that has been around for awhile and has a solid knowledge base already and compare that to someone new just starting out that will become successful and be around for a long time, the saying goes like this:

The older you get, the smarter I get! :slight_smile:

Re: Guru said to read this. - Posted by Sally (WA)

Posted by Sally (WA) on January 08, 2002 at 10:39:01:

Hey Andy,

Things are going great here, I hope things are going well for you guys too. Beads for goodies sounds reasonable to me (although not in the traditional New Orleans way!). Send me an email and we can discuss.

Regards

p.s. Are you guys going to the convention in Atlanta? Hope to see you there.