Flat fee MLS listing services? - Posted by Steve(TX)

import · December 15, 2006, 6:55am

Re: Flat fee MLS listing services? - Posted by Mike (TN)

Posted by Mike (TN) on December 15, 2006 at 07:55:29:

“What is a bunch of BS is you believe a person should not have a say so in what amount they are willing to work for.”

Huh?

I wasn’t suggesting that real estate agents do not work hard, nor was I suggesting that they should not get paid for what they do. Re-read the post before grinding your axe, as my axe related to the ILLEGAL practice of acting as a group to squelch competition. It is essentially the same law which governs price fixing, another area where real estate agents are treading on thin ice.

If a person does not want to pay a listing agent, he should have that right without being forced to “play ball” with the realtor cabal. Under all the flat fee arrangements I’ve seen, the selling agent still gets paid, usually 2.5-3%, which is exactly what they typically get if they are the selling agent and a real estate agent at another firm is the listing agent. Under that scenario, if a real estate shows property that is listed by any other firm that lists the same commission to them but refuses to show properties listed by flat fee payers, they are acting in an anticompetitive fashion. The real estate agent gets the same commission either way, so should he care? He cares because he is scared sh!tless that he won’t be able to get the much easier money that comes from being the listing agent if everyone starting using flat fee agents to do the listing.

Consumers should not have to be forced to “play ball” if they do not want to. They should not have to buy services that they neither need nor desire. If I want to do my own advertising and have the flexibility to sell it on my own (while having the option to allow a real estate agent to show it and being legally bound to pay them a commission for what they bring to the table), I should be able to do so.

import · December 17, 2006, 4:46pm

I feel the same way - Posted by Jason (Oh)

Posted by Jason (Oh) on December 17, 2006 at 17:46:12:

I’m just small time but I’m done showing propertys to these people who if they got a nickle which I doubt, half the time they don’t show up to see property. I’m sick of running ads and showing houses. I got a agent who I started using to sell a couple houses and they sold pretty quick. They charge a bit more than you say but in the end its worked so far.

import · December 23, 2006, 10:59pm

Re: Flat fee MLS listing services? - Posted by scott

Posted by scott on December 23, 2006 at 23:59:23:

Hi Steve, what area of TX are you in? I beleive http://www.congressrealty.com covers a good portion of the state of TX for $299.

import · December 15, 2006, 6:57am

Re: Flat fee MLS listing services? - Posted by Mike (TN)

Posted by Mike (TN) on December 15, 2006 at 07:57:12:

Get a lockbox at Lowe’s

import · December 13, 2006, 5:42pm

Re: Flat fee MLS listing services? - Posted by Gerald(DC)

Posted by Gerald(DC) on December 13, 2006 at 18:42:27:

I am a broker licensed in MD and DC. I offer flat fee services and have several investor clients who have listed dozens of houses through my company.

We charge a flat fee of $399.00. We charge extra for lockboxes, signs and adding digital photos.

I find that if the property is priced correct and if the investors are professional by taking the calls and trouble shooting as needed, the deals close smoothly (but that is a relative term).

However, when Joe Blow homeowner wants to sell and uses my flat fee services, the results have not been nearly as successful as my investor clients.

import · December 15, 2006, 11:00am

Re: Flat fee MLS listing services? - Posted by BTI

Posted by BTI on December 15, 2006 at 12:00:23:

Pit

Thanks for the response, I always appreciate responses from experts in any field, and to receive one from the king of drivel is an honor.

BTI

import · December 15, 2006, 11:53am

Re: Flat fee MLS listing services? - Posted by BTI

Posted by BTI on December 15, 2006 at 12:53:08:

Mike

I read your post. What I see is another person who want to pay a whole lot less then the going rate, thats fine but I don’t have to be the one to provide them.

what I see is someone that basically want to freeload on the money and efforts of others, the mls was set up for the benefit of a group that was willing to co-op with each other and share the costs.

I’m old enough to remember when the mls was just a place to throw your white elephant listings that weren’t selling, but through the effort of many it became a place very useful to the group who pays for it.

Maybe you think that Wal-mart should be required to put your used furniture on their floor when you decide to get rid of it, after all you will give them a couple of bucks for their service.

You can sell any property yourself, no one is forcing you to use an agent, if you can find a discounter who ofteb times only stays in business by riding on the backs of others then fine, I don’t have to support an incompetent who can only get business by buying it. And if I do present an offer to such a seller I’m going to make sure my buyer gets all the seller’s savings plus a whole lot more. Like I said they only have a loser representing them in most cases.

Sell it yourself, you can always put will co-op with agents at 3% in your ads. Only want to co-op a 2%, well you junt lost most of the agents who would show it. Don’t want to pay for ads, well who do you expect to pay for the selling efforts, the selling agent you don’t have.

I have been investing for 51 years and I always figure a 6% commission into the calculations on my deals, if I don’t have to pay one fine. But what good is it going to do if your holding costs are 1% a month and you take three months longer to sell it if it’s not your residence, and you get 3% less then you could have by presenting it to the real realtors in your area, not the fringe players, your savings are Zero

I remember a seller that went with one of the franchise discout brokers years ago, I had rehabbed a house a few blocks away on a busy street, his was in a cul de sac, he had a bigger yard, and had paid the builder to extend the kitchen family roon while it was being constructed, plus he had a nice pool. Three months After I had closed at $270k I saw him and his wife smiling in one of the discount brokers ads with the byline “we saved almost $7,600 in commissions”, I looked up the sale later he had gotten only $234k for a home I thought would go for $290-300k for sure.

You say a consumer shouldn’t be forced to play ball, but on the same page your saying a business person should be forced to play ball. Yes you want to play ball with my time and money, you going to have to play by my rules or go elsewhere, no one is forcing you to do anything, you can take advantages of the services offered you or not, your choice. I’m going to be selling one of my cars in the spring, maybe I can force the dealer to put it on his lot and have his salespeople sell it at my price for whatever I want to pay for the service.

BTI

import · December 15, 2006, 11:06am

Re: Flat fee MLS listing services? - Posted by Natalie-VA

Posted by Natalie-VA on December 15, 2006 at 12:06:40:

Mike,

I agree with a lot of your statements. I am a RE Broker, but not a Realtor. That means I choose not to pay hundreds of dollars each year for dues. There’s no additional education or experience required to be a Realtor; all you need is a license and to pay dues.

Anyway, my area is one of the few areas where the local MLS is owned by it’s members, not the local Realtor association. In most areas of our country, the MLS is owned by the Realtor association and you really have no choice but to join them if you want to join the MLS. Even in my area where the MLS is not owned by the Realtor association, they recently decided to send listings to Realtor.com, but my listings won’t go since I’m not a member. It’s like they’re trying to force me to join.

I recently got my RE Broker’s license in NC, and their MLS is Realtor owned and won’t let me join unless I also join the association.

I think it’s anti-trust. I do think that the public does not necessarily have a right to this data, since agents and MLS’s pay for it, but I don’t think the Realtor association should force agents to join. It’s the main reason that their membership is so high. And yes, consumers should have a right to choose the level of service they want to pay for. Remember, Realtors are looking out for themselves first, and consumers second.

Okay, I’m done with my rant.

–Natalie

import · December 13, 2006, 6:35pm

Re: Flat fee MLS listing services? - Posted by GS

Posted by GS on December 13, 2006 at 19:35:28:

What are some suggestions for the professional investor when listing their
own properties

import · December 15, 2006, 3:06pm

Re: Flat fee MLS listing services? - Posted by Pit Bull

Posted by Pit Bull on December 15, 2006 at 16:06:58:

Thanks for the Kingship. However, I heard the King society had an election and you are the new king.

import · December 15, 2006, 3:42pm

Re: Flat fee MLS listing services? - Posted by Mike (TN)

Posted by Mike (TN) on December 15, 2006 at 16:42:46:

No one is riding on anyone’s back for free. The person who is listing is paying the flat fee agent and that agent is paying is fair share of MLS or the the realtor cabal would not let him in the door.

Your Wal-Mart analogy falls short. The situation is more akin to a flea market. Some people paid to build the flea market but they charge everyone who wants to set up a table the same price (i.e., the cost of joining the local MLS). Those with a table can sublease their table for any price they want. In this case, the table owners are realtors. They can charge 3% to list or they can charge a flat fee. The fact that someone pays a flat fee to sell his wares at the flea market does not somehow mean that the flea market is getting screwed or that the other table owners are getting screwed. If the flea market doesn’t like the amount that the table owners charge to sublease their table space, they can raise the price ON EVERYBODY. It’s not the flea market owner’s job to tell the table owners what they can charge, but that is exactly what realtors are trying to do.

import · December 15, 2006, 3:30pm

Re: Flat fee MLS listing services? - Posted by Natalie-VA

Posted by Natalie-VA on December 15, 2006 at 16:30:09:

BTI,

Good post, but I disagree with a few points. I don’t think discount brokers are riding off the backs of anyone else. They are simply using a different business model. I don’t think that makes them incompetant.

Secondly, it seems that you’re making a general association between discount brokers and incompetance. I’ve actually seen no correlation there. I’ve run into more full service, full commission Realtors who are incompetant. I’ve found the discount brokers that I’ve encountered to be smart business people.

Thanks for your thoughts.

–Natalie

import · December 15, 2006, 3:10pm

Re: Flat fee MLS listing services? - Posted by Pit Bull

Posted by Pit Bull on December 15, 2006 at 16:10:25:

Another one from the King of Kings.

import · December 13, 2006, 6:55pm

Re: Flat fee MLS listing services? - Posted by Gerald(DC)

Posted by Gerald(DC) on December 13, 2006 at 19:55:23:

Price the property correct. Make sure the property shows well. Return phone calls promptly. Know the market well and be flexible with pricing, closing help and repair credits.

Market the property via craigslist, classified adds and other media. The most important thing is to price it right from the get go.

import · December 18, 2006, 9:18am

Re: Flat fee MLS listing services? - Posted by BTI

Posted by BTI on December 18, 2006 at 10:18:04:

Correction, the discount broker owed me $1,000 on the bet. Thanks Steve, Steve is an old investor friend who e-mailed me last night to correct me and ask if I had a stroke, he was worried when I threw away $500. No steve I didn’t have a stroke but some of the meds I’m on cause them.

And thanks for reminding me of the Lenny story. Lenny was the only other guy to welch on a bet with me, he was the kind of guy who showed up to collect when he won and was no where in sight when he lost.

Well he lost a $800 bet to me and welched, didn’t remember making the bet he said though there were a dozen witnesses. Well it seems about a month after stiffing me, 3 guys beat the holy hell out of him and told him to pay up on his bet. After a few days in the hospital he got out but when the guys were beating him they didn’t say what bet so Lenny ran around paying off bets he had welched on over the last few months, Steve was having coffee with me when Lenny came up to our table and layed out $800 and said we’re straight now right? I don’t know who sent those guys but it sure straightened Lenny out.

BTI

import · December 17, 2006, 6:28pm

Re: Flat fee MLS listing services? - Posted by BTI

Posted by BTI on December 17, 2006 at 19:28:36:

Natalie

I agree all discount brokers are not incompetant, some of what I throw out is said tonque in cheek, but it doesn’t come across in the written word which is why I much prefer face to face discussions.

I know they have a different business model, my point is they are not doing what they profess they will do, and that is save the seller money. As a case in point I made that statement in public and the discount broker promptly stated that was not the case, so in front of other brokers I challenged him to a bet. I would go into his office and at random I would pick out 20 closed files, he in turn could go into any of my files and pick out 20 closed files.

Now as you know comparable homes will generally sell in a range. For example only, a 3br, 2 ba home in area Z will sell for $97 to $103k. Average price $100k. My bet was for each of my closed sales under the mythical $100k I would pay him $50 dollars, for each of his closed sales, under the mythical $100k he would pay me $50 dollars. Not an exact science but he declared he got just as high of sales prices as I did, but to be fair I allowed him to raise his actual sales price by the commission savings.

All 20 of his files I picked at random resulted in him owing me, all 20 of mine he picked resulted in me owing him nothing, result he owed me $500 but of course he welched declaring I had just be lucky and if we checked all of our files it would even out. So I offered to go double or nothing on just one file picked by a third party, he didn’t take me up on it, just declared gambling is illegal.

I don’t have a closed mind on different business models, one discount broker in my area listed at 4 and 1/2%. He offered selling agents 3% and 1/2% was due from the seller whether it sold or not, I don’t know of one agent that objected to his business model.

I definitely agree there are plenty of incompetent agents with full service agents and many of them have made it as subjects on this board. Thankfully, most of them leave the business or are dumped by their brokers before they do to much damage.

The original subject of this post had to do with a complaint of agents not co-operating with discount brokers and somehow those agents should be forced to show his property. Well if I have a buyer, I always use a buyer-broker contract that has agreed to work with me for 3%, that buyer is worth 3%, and if a seller is not will to pay that for this buyer, that’s the sellers decision and they have to accept that if I don’t want to work for less that’s the way it is.

I always have treated discounters as equals if they are bringing in a buyer on one of my listings, after all that is what I want, but I have never had one say they would voluntarily accept only a commission equal to what they would have offered me if I brought in a buyer on one of their listings. So to me they are riding my back because if they sold their own listing they would have gotten next to nothing extra, the money they made from selling my listings helped them stay in business.

My only objection to FSBO’s was they normally sold for much less and they would bring down the comps for a neighborhood for awhile lowering the lender appraisal amounts if sales were not plentiful in that area for a while, I noticed many of the discount broker sales were doing the same thing.

BTI

import · February 9, 2007, 9:21pm

Re: Flat fee MLS listing services? - Posted by Larry

Posted by Larry on February 09, 2007 at 22:21:37:

How do these flat fee brokers make money? At 500 a listing they’d have to list at least 100 a year to make a decent living. Whats’ the catch?