Double Closings and Assigning Contracts - Posted by Bob

Re: Double Closings and Assigning Contracts - Posted by Wayne

Posted by Wayne on March 05, 2010 at 22:45:28:

“The transfer of ones own property to their own Revocable Living
Trust, does not create a seasoning, issue as long as the
Grantor/Settlor, remains ‘A’ beneficiary of the trust.”

It sounds like you’re saying using the Trust doesn’t create seasoning
issues, but originally you said it eliminates seasoning issues?

My guess is: you as one of the benificiaries never bought the property
to begin with, so there’s no issue between you buying and then selling
it too quickly. The property simply gets transferred from the Trust to
the new owner.

Can this be used where there’s a wholesaler and a rehabber involved in
the deal?
ie. seller -> wholesaler -> rehabber -> new occupant

“As ‘co-beneficiaries’ or remainder agents, you may direct the trustee
to sell the property and distribute the profits of the sale to the
beneficiaries according to their respective interests in the trust.”

How can interest in such a trust be specified? Can the original seller’s
interest be specified as a certain dollar amount, and the investor’s
interest be specified as everything else?

“The DOEC just states the there must remain an ‘Arms Length’
relationship between the Beneficiaries and the Trustee or the trust can
be deemed dry or invalid.”

What does DOEC stand for? I Googled for it, and didn’t come up with
anything that looked right to me.

Why the repeated emphasis on “A” beneficiary? I’m assuming you
mean that the Grantor/Settlor has to remain a beneficiary, but not
necessarily the sole beneficiary of the trust.

Thanks a lot for all your explanations.

Re: Double Closings and Assigning Contracts - Posted by SedonaSam

Posted by SedonaSam on March 05, 2010 at 19:27:34:

http://link.websitewizard.com/how-the-trust-works.html

Re: Double Closings and Assigning Contracts - Posted by WAREIA

Posted by WAREIA on March 06, 2010 at 15:25:22:

Sorry for the confusion.

The trust eliminates any seasoning hassles because it does not create any. It is transparent to the lender. The title is not considered transferred when placed in a valid trust.

The “assignment” of interest in a trust IS NOT a purchase of Real Property. Therefore it IS NOT a Sale of Real Estate. Anyone can create their own RLT and name anyone they want as beneficiaries and assign them a specific interest or equity in the trust (not the property).

It can be used to “mimic” any sort of real estate transaction. Rehab to Wholesale for example…

Put property in trust, improve the value by improving the property, direct the trustee to sell it to anyone you want and whatever price you are asking. Still, one sale, one close, no contracts, no assignments, no double or simultaneous close, no double contracting, no “seasoning” to deal with.

There are two types of “interest” in a trust. There is “Equity” interest and there is “Beneficiary” interest. Equity it a dollar value and Beneficiary is percentage of ownership of the trust.

If a Seller owes $100k and will sell it to you for $150k, and you can sell it for $175k…

The Seller, now Settlor’s “Equity Interest” is $50k and Your “Equity Interest” is $25k. It really doesn’t matter in this scenario what your “Beneficiary Interest” is in this example.

However, if you are going to take the property “Sub-To” and then put another person in the property on a Lease-to-Own type arrangement, you may agree to split the future growth and appreciation with the Settlor by agreeing to share the beneficiary or ownership interest 50/50.

In a few years you can both agree to sell the property and after your Equity Interest in paid, the remaining “Net Proceeds” of the sale would be split according to each of your respective beneficiary or ownership interest in the trust. In this case whatever is left over after closing costs, real estate commissions etc, you would split 50/50.

A THLT is an excellent and simple alternative to “Partnership” and “Joint Venture” Agreements. It ELIMINATES all the risks associated with those type of arrangements.

DOEC - Doctrine of Equitable Conversion

I would NEVER do a Seller Carry, Flip, Wholesale, Long Term Hold, Sub-To or any other Real Estate Transaction without a THLT in place. The only exception would be a Short Sale. However, I know people who have used it for that too.

Being “the” beneficiary means you would be the ONLY beneficiary of the trust, which offer no protection. Being “A” beneficiary of the trust means you have two or more unrelated co-beneficiaries and offers more protection just like a multi-member LLC.

I heard it described this way by a friend of mine.

The difference between “A” and “The” is huge. For example, would you rather be “the” person that sleeps with your wife or “A” person that sleeps with your wife?

With regard to using a THLT in a Sub-To arrangement, and according to the Garn-St.Germain Act of 1984, if the Grantor/Settlor remains “A” beneficiary of an “Inter-Vivos Trust”, such a transfer of title does not violate your lenders Due-on-Sale provisions.

Re: Double Closings and Assigning Contracts - Posted by Wayne

Posted by Wayne on March 06, 2010 at 17:22:31:

WAREIA wrote:
“The title is not considered transferred when placed in a valid trust.”

Do you know of ways that a trust can be considered not “valid”?

WAREIA wrote:
“Anyone can create their own RLT and name anyone they want as
beneficiaries and assign them a specific interest or equity in the trust
(not the property).”

So the seller is in control. How can you be sure that you can trust the
seller to assign you your equity interest?

WAREIA wrote:
“It can be used to ‘mimic’ any sort of real estate transaction. Rehab to
Wholesale for example…”

And what about the whole process of:
seller -> wholesaler -> rehabber -> new owner?

Essentially, I’m asking: after the Settlor assigns you (say) as a
wholesaler an equity interest, can he then assign a rehabber an equity
interest as well? And of course we have the issue of trusting the
Settlor, when presumably the Settlor, wholesaler, and rehabber are at
arms length.

WAREIA wrote:
“If a Seller owes $100k and will sell it to you for $150k, and you can
sell it for $175k…”

Then you have to wait til you know what you’re selling for before the
seller can assign you your interest. This is where you are at risk, I
would think. Do you keep your buyer’s identity secret from your
Settlor until your equity interest has been assigned? And I would think
you would want a contract for the $150k purchase price in order to
lock it in, yet several times you have said “no contracts”…?

WAREIA wrote:
“However, if you are going to take the property “Sub-To” and then put
another person in the property on a Lease-to-Own type arrangement,
you may agree to split the future growth and appreciation with the
Settlor by agreeing to share the beneficiary or ownership interest
50/50.”

Again, you have to trust the Settlor. What is the advantage of the Trust
if there’s going to be such a long time between putting the property in
the Trust and eventual sale to the new owner (no seasoning issues)? I
guess the answer is: there are no closing costs at the beginning,
because there’s no sale of the property.

You “MAY agree” to split future appreciation? How would you handle it
if you don’t want to do that?

WAREIA wrote:
“In a few years you can both agree to sell the property and after your
Equity Interest in paid, the remaining ‘Net Proceeds’ of the sale would
be split according to each of your respective beneficiary or ownership
interest in the trust. In this case whatever is left over after closing
costs, real estate commissions etc, you would split 50/50.”

And who’s getting the lease payments on the Lease-to-Own
arrangement? I guess if you don’t want to deal with this type of stuff,
you would just buy it yourself instead of keeping the property in the
Trust.

WAREIA wrote:
“A THLT is an excellent and simple alternative to ‘Partnership’ and
‘Joint Venture’ Agreements. It ELIMINATES all the risks associated with
those type of arrangements.”

But doesn’t it introduce other risks?

WAREIA wrote:
“I would NEVER do a Seller Carry, Flip, Wholesale, Long Term Hold,
Sub-To or any other Real Estate Transaction without a THLT in place.
The only exception would be a Short Sale. However, I know people who
have used it for that too.”

Can the Settlor assign other interest in the Trust? Or change your
interest in the Trust? Who has control of it?

WAREIA wrote:
“With regard to using a THLT in a Sub-To arrangement, and according
to the Garn-St.Germain Act of 1984, if the Grantor/Settlor remains ‘A’
beneficiary of an ‘Inter-Vivos Trust’, such a transfer of title does not
violate your lenders Due-on-Sale provisions.”

Huh? “Due-on-Sale provisions” is a new term for me. Have we talked
about that in this thread? Or is it a new advantage of the THLT? (What
are Due-on-Sale provisions?)

Re: Double Closings and Assigning Contracts - Posted by SedonaSam

Posted by SedonaSam on March 07, 2010 at 09:20:13:

1 - A trust can be considered not valid if a party is both a beneficiary
and the Trustee.

2 - The settlor cannot appoint anyone without the consent of ALL of
the beneficiaries so you are safe.

3 - All the specifics are detailed in the Trust Agreement. No surprises.

4 - The trust does not introduce other risks. If it did, WAREIA would
not have been using them for 20 years, and me for 10.

5- As I said before, the Settlor cannot change anything without
unanimous approval and these are all detailed in the Trust agreement.

6 - Exemption from the Due on Sale Clause is a benefit of using the
Trust. It’s not something new and if you don’t know what the DOSC is,
look it up.