Are these courses and poetental profits real? - Posted by Stuart Neil

Posted by Gordon on November 26, 1998 at 10:42:37:

You know Thomas, I couldn’t agree more with JohnG.

He is absolutely right! And that just makes me more excited about my future of opportunities waiting to be had!!!

Most of the people who purchase a course will probably not even lift a finger towards turning it into reality.

Although this is the sad truth, it couldn’t make me any happier. This just leaves more and more and more opportunities for people like John and me to take advantage of.

I am a new investor. I purchased my first rental in July of this year and made a $20,000 dollar profit. Sure it took work, time, patience, persistence, not to mention some blood, sweat and tears. Was it worth it you ask? Well, it was $20,000 +++++++++++++++ worth it to me!!!

That was my first rental property. I just won a bid on a foreclosed property two days ago. This property has $35,000 of equity in it. Worth it you ask?! Well, it was $35,000 +++++++++++++ and even more worth it to me (not even counting the long term equity build-up and positive cash flow each month)!!!

That property still has to go through escrow, but, even as we speak, I am looking for an apartment complex as my next possible purchase, or maybe some more houses, or maybe…(I just can’t decide, just too darn much opportunity out there).

And guess what? I purchased both of these properties with none of my own money? Too good to be true you say. Well, then youre right. Just keep on believing that it’s impossible and it will be.

As for me, I think I’ll just kick-back for a while and wallow or shall I bask?!!!, in my newly aquired wealth, fulfillment, and oh so sweet success!

Life is what you make it, and boy, it sure is GRAND!

Paradise Thomas, PARADISE!!!

For those who “DARE TO DREAM” ----BELIEVE!

For those that don’t “THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!”

Later everyone, Gordon

Are these courses and poetental profits real? - Posted by Stuart Neil

Posted by Stuart Neil on November 25, 1998 at 12:48:51:

I am very interested in getting into the real estate business, but I am also very concerned that these courses may not provide any payback on my investment in them. Other that the “success stories”, can someone give me some REAL idea on the amount of money to be made, and the time involved? I am not afraid to get out and do the legwork and whatever else it takes. I don’t know where or how to get started, so it seems like one of thses courses advertised on this web site would make a great starting point. Can any of you give me real answers?

Stuart Neil

The question is, are “you” real? - Posted by Ben (IN)

Posted by Ben (IN) on November 27, 1998 at 09:02:55:


That’s kind of a dumb question you are asking. Yes Bill McCorkle is a scam-artist, but if you ever saw his infomercial, I think that wasn’t very hard to pick.

You want to know if the courses here will make you money. Well, doesn’t everyone? But, wait, that’s the wrong question. Because you can buy every course on this site, and not still not make a penny. Its not the role of a course to make you money. Courses are information, nothing more, nothing less. Its whether YOU, the schlub who bought the course, USE the information and take the advice of the authors that determines whether make any money or not. No kidding huh?

Is the information any good? Well, take a look at the success stories page? John Galt made $100K on “one deal” with the ideas he got from Paper Into Gold by Terry Vaughan. I’ve made thens of thousands with an idea I got from JP’s book (which unfortunately she doesn’t sell anymore), a friend of mine in Indy, Ed Fallon, has about $100K in MH notes thanks to what he learned from Lonnie (out of a $29 book and a $150 seminar).

The ideas are sound, they are constantly being updated and refined (such is the nature of this site), and they are available to you here for a hundred bucks or so. Come on. Get real! If you want to learn how to make bucks in the real estate market, choose an area that you think you would be good at (important!), buy the freaking book for $99 or whatever, and go make some effort! I think you will find that the big insurmountable task ahead of you will unfold more simply than would ever expect. If you don’t actually make $4-5K, at the very least you’ll know what you need to know next. And that’s the genius of a newsgroup like this; after making some effort, you can come back here and find out what to do next. Those that are truly making an effort get all the help they need. Remember, no one ever made a profit from sitting at their computer whining.

The material avaiable here is unquestionably value for money. So the question isn’t are the courses real, its “are YOU real”. If you are, you’ll buy a course, become thoroughly acquainted with its ideas, and go out into the marketplace to make offers. You have the newsgroup to consult for specific questions regarding the results of your efforts, and the chatroom for more immediate help. But don’t expect anything without putting in any effort first.

Just this past year there is a couple from Minnesota that I know of, who in their first year in the business, made over a million in gross profits flipping houses. A guy from Phoenix I met earlier this year did the same last year, and probably made more this year. Over a “million” in gross profits his first year in business! What do you think their attitude is? Do you think they sit around questioning whether this or that is a scam? No, its obvious there is money to be made in this business. Their attitude is that they are “going to do it”. Period. After learning the basics of the business and putting the inital deals together the only questions that remain are, “is this deal worth my time”, and “how can I increase profit and decrease time & effort spent on each deal?”.

Yes these are highly motivated people, but their results speak for themselves. They DO, rather than contemplate. They, and everyone else for that matter, were where you are now at some point. The differrence between people and the results they get is what they DO on a day to day basis. What are you going to DO Stuart? Are you going to get out and learn the basics quickly and move on to bigger things, or are you going to fumble around looking for reasons to stay where you are and “not get burned”? As Terry V very aptly points out, whatever it is you are looking in life, you usually get it. Maybe you just want the comfort of where you are right now. Maybe R/E isn’t for you who knows?

But there’s only one way to find out. Buy something from an instructor, and go make some offers. You’ll know soon enough.

Best Wishes,

Ben Innes-Ker

Re: Are these courses and poetental profits real? - Posted by Eduardo (OR)

Posted by Eduardo (OR) on November 25, 1998 at 18:34:48:


I have been a successful real estate investor on a small scale for 25 years. During that time I have paid out over $10,000 for books, tapes, courses, seminars, workshops, etc. Every penny has been well worth it and, because of the education I paid for, I have been able to make back much more than I have spent.

Two points, however, come to mind after reading your post: 1. All the education in the world is not going to help you if you don’t have the “drive” to succeed. You really have to “immerse” yourself in real estate to the extent that you “eat, sleep and breathe” the subject. You must have a consuming ambition to learn how to make money investing in real estate and real estate “paper.” 2. Most people either don’t have the desire strong enough, or they can’t sustain it long enough, to succeed. The sacrifices that are required can be tremendous, including great pressure on the family, particularly if the spouse is not supportive. Nevertheless, I, for one, am convinced that real estate investing offers greater financial rewards to the average guy/gal who takes several years to master it than practically any other road open to them. Books and courses significantly shorten that learning period. --Eduardo

Re: Are these courses and poetental profits real? - Posted by phil fernandez

Posted by phil fernandez on November 25, 1998 at 15:47:06:


I have not read the responses up to this point on your post. I am an experienced investor. There is not a course on this site that will not make you money. However, there is no magic bullet here. You have to get the information from the courses and apply that information.

I still buy courses from this site and am never disappointed.

Re: Are these courses and poetental profits real? - Posted by Matt B

Posted by Matt B on November 25, 1998 at 13:09:58:

Since you don’t have much faith in the “Success Stories” listed on this site, I won’t refer you to mine “1100% yield on my first mobile home deal”. (Wait a minute, yes I will. You MUST check it out!) However, I can personally vouch for at least one of the courses offered. Lonnie Scruggs’ course on dealing with mobile homes has been EXTREMELY effective for me. My only problem has been lack of time to actually do the deals due to having to work illegally long hours at work. (This is changing next year when I start producing money for myself and not an employer.) I have found a TON of buyers, sellers, and every possible money-making deal concerning mobile homes imaginable. I was extremeley skeptical about these outragous claims of how much could be made using the information here, but amazingly, the little that I have put to use has paid off big time.
I strongly encourage you to read through the how-to articles to get an idea of each person who offers a course for sale here. They are genuine investors with real knowledge to give. Most post to this newsgroup and are happy to volunteer help and advice to those of us who are starting out.
I have recently ordered Ron LeGrand’s course, and cannot wait to put that knowledge to use. With the 2 small mobile home deals that I have done, I have produced a $400 a month income. That’s nothing, you say? Those 2 deals took 1 week to produce, and they will keep producing that income for 2 years. Can you say that about a job?
Good luck in your search for knowledge. You’re in the right place.

Re: Are these courses and poetental profits real? - Posted by Bronchick

Posted by Bronchick on November 25, 1998 at 12:59:12:

All of the courses work, depending on how hard you work them. They are tools, like hammers & screwdrivers, but collect dust if you don’t use them.

Don’t be lured in by the “magic wand” - no course, method or business gets you “rich” without hard work, risk, guts & dedication. However, if you are going to work hard at a business, real estate is the one that will bring you the most rewards.

Use the courses to educate yourself. The rest is up to you.

Re: The question is, are “you” real? - Posted by greg scott

Posted by greg scott on November 28, 1998 at 02:24:27:

Tell me more about that couple from Minnesota. Seriously I’m interested mainly in flipping and I’d love to know how they made a million in one year.

Greg Scott

Re: Are these courses and poetental profits real? - Posted by Dilbert

Posted by Dilbert on November 26, 1998 at 13:23:30:

Is it possible to do mobile home deals in a large urban setting like Chicago, or is this side of the business best suited for smaller cities?

Re: Are these courses and poetental profits real? - Posted by Thomas(Orlando)

Posted by Thomas(Orlando) on November 25, 1998 at 14:18:55:

Of course you could do what Bill and the others do and just sell tapes and do seminars. That must be profitable too and a great deal easier.

Re: The question is, are “you” real? - Posted by Ben (IN)

Posted by Ben (IN) on November 28, 1998 at 08:33:36:

Dear Greg,

As far as how goes, they market like crazy. Radio ads, newspaper ads, flyers, direct mail outbound to FSBOs & foreclosures, val-pak coupons, bird-dogs, signs all ver the place, etc, etc, as well as couple of realtors who dig up any junkers that are in the MLS each day. They get hundreds of people calling each day into their answering service, which screens out the unmotivated people. In short, they make a boatload of offers each day to highly motivated sellers. And a full-time telemarketer follows up on
the sellers from the previous months that didn’t sell to them. Nothing particularly complex, just increased numbers. Marketing types tell you that to increase your profits you need to increase the amount of time you spend actually selling. That’s what these folks have done. Their system screens out the non-motivated sellers so that, as buyers, they spend all of their time talking only to motivated sellers. On the selling side they also market like crazy to get the houses sold fast. They have a huge buyer list for people who want to buy Rent-To-Own. In essence its just a Rent-To-Own shop, moving them through so that they have a place basically filled almost as soon as they’ve bought it.
As far as I understand they work out of an office where they have a couple of staff who help them with all the administrative work of keeping records and follow-up.
From what I can see their success lies in the fact that they are more concerned with the sellers who will sell on their terms, and less concerned with those that won’t.

Ben Innes-Ker

Re: Are these courses and poetental profits real? - Posted by Matt B

Posted by Matt B on November 27, 1998 at 07:47:30:

It’s been my experience that the small towns have just as many Lonnie deals as big cities. I have found a larger number of mobile home parks surrounding the Pittsburgh area as well as the more rural Butler area. All it takes is a little driving around and looking through the parks. Do a search for mobile home parks in your area on Yahoo’s yellow pages. You might be surprised at how many of these places you drove by without realizing they were there.

Re: Are these courses and poetental profits real? - Posted by hk CA

Posted by hk CA on November 28, 1998 at 12:03:56:

Please tell us more about yourself and your successes. Just curious about your negativity to education.

Re: Are these courses and poetental profits real? - Posted by Rob FL

Posted by Rob FL on November 26, 1998 at 07:43:46:

From the how-to-articles Bill has put on this site it appears he is doing the deals day in and day out. I am sure the courses are just another income source as well. He also is an attorney and makes $ from that too. A smart guy having several different sources of income like that.

BTW I am in Orlando too. You doing any deals here at all? It is a super market to be in.

Re: Are these courses and poetental profits real? - Posted by Dirk Roach

Posted by Dirk Roach on November 26, 1998 at 02:00:56:

Thomas, If I’m reading between the lines I see one of two things which have led you into such a negitive frame of mind. One you Bought some course or book and got really pumped after reading (listening) to it, and you never saw the big money come rolling in. You missed out on getting the big new car and boat and such.
Well I agree with you in that I myself would probably be disapointed too. But lets take a minute and examine what went wrong in your approach of how you tried to work whatever deal soured you.
Maybe you did everything word for word and it didn’t work, which says to me, G(arbage).I(n).G(arbage).O(ut)…bum book.
which could be the case. But more often than not I see problems arise when people don’t read the whole book, or don’t follow the course. I highly doubt though that anyone selling courses on this site has faulty information. It is obivious that this is the site were the big Boys & Girls in the R.E. industry are at. They have too much to lose. Reputation in this industry is paramount! Once you’ve lost it, your dead. Why would they (the course and book authors) sabatoge their reputations? They wouldn’t.
Also I would wager that every author on this site makes more money activly pursuing deals than they do selling books and courses.
Back to the second thing which might have soured you. You maybe just one of those people who like to be the different one, just for the sake of it. Nothing wrong with individuality at all, but you never come across as very sophisticated when you throw out an opinion just for attention, because you think that no one else will agree with you. You come across as someone who just wants to counter the general consenses. Often times the leap from immaturity to wanting attention is not very far at all. It’s not new or insightful, it’s obvious.
Just an observation,

I can’t believe you fell into his trap … - Posted by JohnG

Posted by JohnG on November 25, 1998 at 22:14:30:

and Bronchick and Terry Vaughan are pros -I’m really surprised they felt obliged to respond to the normal negativity of the masses out there !!!

Don’t you realize that the reason we can go out there and perform miracles every single day is because 99.9% of the world thinks like Thomas. This is all pie in the sky and it doesn’t work and you are only making money off your tapes. Ha Ha Ha !!! Listen, I lost $100,000.00 on ONE DEAL because I was too smart to spend 300.00 on tapes from someone who knew more than I did. That was 10 years ago. I buy tapes and books as soon as they come out and I learn something from every one - even if its what NOT to do in a certain situation.

I absolutely love it when people come down on us “entrepreneurs” who make things happen. While they are busy telling us why it can’t be done - we are out doing it. This is the greatest business in the world for cash flow, capital appreciation, tax benefits, and just plain excitement. Sometimes, I am so excited and so pumped I cannot sleep more than 4-5 hours and I am up again and rearing to go.

Just think how much more difficult it would be if every person out there actually believed in the things that we do. It would be next to impossible to do our deals. As it stands, there are only 5-10% of us that are really chasing our dreams and making things happen. The others are wondering whats happening.

(P.S. I am not just a tape collector and a seminar junkie. I buy and sell properties 7 days a week. Just sold a 15 suiter this week and bought 2 re-habbers and sold 2 homes. Just another day in paradise !!!)

Wow! What a hot button! I thought the kid - Posted by Paul Macdonald

Posted by Paul Macdonald on November 25, 1998 at 18:15:41:

was joking.

But if not, FYI, when I tried to invent the wheel in real estate investing I lost $170,000.00 on my first deal. And it wasn’t just cause I was ignorant. I was. It was because I was TOO STUPID to pay for a professional to cover my ass:ets.

Now I’m smart enough to now I don’t know nearly enough. I’ve invested easily $4,000 over several years and its the cheapest, best help I’ve ever had. My last deal will make me at least $3,000 per month the rest of my life.

So if you were joking Thomas I’d backtrack and kowtow to these gentlemen who could teach you to be a millionaire. If you weren’t joking I’d do it twice.

Paul Macdonald

Okay! I confess! This stuff doesn’t really work! - Posted by Terry Vaughan

Posted by Terry Vaughan on November 25, 1998 at 17:38:03:


All that stuff I’ve learned over the past twenty-five years is just “smoke”! I’m just glad there aren’t more people like you, who can see through the smoke! Other wise I wouldn’t have made this great fortune selling books and tapes.

But please don’t tell these fools the only way they are really going to learn how to make money is by going to college or from some rich person (if you are related).

In fact, if you will keep my secret (now that you found me out), I promise not to sell you any of my book and tape “scams”.

And no matter what these other dummies tell you, Thomas, remember you are right. They will try to tell you that you really can learn how to make money. Don’t believe a pie in the sky word they tell you!

Good luck with your job!

Thomas, I’m ready to buy your course - Posted by The Baze

Posted by The Baze on November 25, 1998 at 17:08:02:

Oh, you don’t have one. Wonder why. Could it be that perhaps you haven’t done the volume of deals that Mr. Bronchick, Mr. Kaiser, et al have done? If it’s so easy to do, where is your course? Where will your seminar be held? Instead of making yourself look like an idiot, why not take the information that these people provide and put it to use and make a few bucks. I’m grateful that the Bronchicks and Kaisers of the world are willing to sell their knowledge. It saved me from having to spend years at the school of hard knocks and I consider the investment I’ve made in their courses to be a pittance. But, I will of course wait for your course to be out soon. Being as it’s so easy, I suppose we can expect it in a couple of weeks?

Tom Bazley

I take exception to that, Thomas! - Posted by Bronchick

Posted by Bronchick on November 25, 1998 at 16:56:46:

I don’t “just sell” books & tapes & seminars. On the contrary, I am very active in buying, selling, rehabbing, wraps, notes, options, loans, lease/options and more!